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Bumpouts


Date posted - February 6, 2013


The Sheldon City Council will discuss Bumpouts at this afternoon’s city council meeting.  Get all the facts.  Attend.

The Village Voice

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40 Responses to “Bumpouts”

  1. Chad says:

    Here are the facts:

    Bumpouts are a waste of money

    The End

  2. Sid says:

    The fact is the bumpouts are a waste of money.I think any loss of parking is not good.The rep from McClure said it was for pedestrian safety.1st…when was the last time a pedestrian was hurt downtown and 2nd…. a lot of people don’t cross at an intersection anyway.

  3. Sid says:

    The fact is the bump outs are a big waste of money.Just like any other governing body..if they want it they will do.

    • yard man says:

      I see comments like yours alot lately concerning gov officials/city council. If you have such neg feelings about them, then run for office yourself. I think you will find its not that easy of a position to be in

      • Sid says:

        I never said it was a easy position and I have no neg feelings toward anyone….but they were elected to be the voice of the public and to help the town of Sheldon…I don’t see how ignoring the fact that wasting money on something that is only there for eye appeal is in any way helping…there are alot of streets that could be repaired or other projects that money could be better spent on.

        • For Sure says:

          Maybe some businesses can plant grass for the streetscape sidewalks, while others will be required to install regulation sidewalks, and yet others would be ok with black top sidewalks. In the end do the councilmen want to sign their names in the wet concrete for the bumpouts, or just tally marks of the voting results? Put it to a public vote!!!!!!!!

  4. Susan says:

    I don’t think we need “bumpouts”. Do they think this is going to attract people to our town, I think not. If they want to spend money, put it into the parks, schools, street repairs or something that can make a difference. And why wasn’t this put to a vote? Because they know what the voting results would be. It seems our leaders make decisions without the best interest of their community. Losing several parking places isn’t the right think to do. We don’t like the diagonal parking they put in on 3rd Avenue either. It makes it difficult to see cars coming when backing out. Now they want to remove more parking. Makes no sense!

  5. KW says:

    Do the city council members read this and take the advice into consideration? Just wondering.

    • Concerned Citizen says:

      No they do not. They feel this web site should not even be up.

      • Susan says:

        Maybe someone should print all these comments off of here and send them to our councilman..

      • David Popkes says:

        When I have time I will read the postings. Very few have any solutions, just complaints. If you only knew the regulations from the State and the Federal Government that the city has to deal with then you would see why things are done the way they are. The city will be doing about 4 to 5 MILLION IN STREET AND INFRASTRUCTURE repair this year alone. It takes time to turn the trends around, but the city is getting there, and without raising taxes. Levy for the city will be going down again this year. I hope this trend continues. At present we are paying down our debt at ONE MIILLION a year.

        • Ken says:

          I agree that “My Two Cents” is just complaining. So here’s mine, Dave. Can we get more traffic signs around town? Most intersections are not marked and most drivers don’t adhere to right of way or even know which car has the right of way on an uncontrolled intersection. Do yield signs cost a lot of money?

  6. Jon says:

    I wonder if given the scope of this entire project how big of an expense the bump-outs themselves really are. The fact is that improvement to the infrastructure downtown is needed, particularly in lowering the curbs and replacing the sidewalks, which are deteriorating. That plus updating some of the water/sewer lines through the area will be a benefit. No one complains when the city allocates money to replace water and sewer lines or improves curb and gutter anywhere else in town, although the price tag here is somewhat higher for this major project. Although apparently this fact is lost on some people, having a prosperous and yes, even nice looking downtown, is an asset to a community that the community can be proud of. I would urge people to go to Decorah, Pella, Osage, Waverly, Spirit Lake, and downtown Marion. Yes, not all of these towns have bumpouts, but they’ve all undertaken major downtown improvement projects and they all have very nice, healthy downtown areas. I know everyone in northwest Iowa fawns over Sioux Center, but its lack of a real downtown in favor of sprawl and strip mall isn’t necessarily the answer either, especially since Sheldon has a central downtown district full of historical buildings worth preserving.

    • Concerned Citizen says:

      Well said. We need everything you talk about and yes other communities have made great improvements but most if not all without the bump outs. If the waste of the bump outs were removed and the citizens of Sheldon are asking for there would not be much for anyone to complain about.

      • Jon says:

        I would say that of those, most only have so-called bump-outs at the corners but none in the middle of blocks that I am aware of.

        • bridgeman says:

          I agree bumpouts will not be feasible. Primghar just did the streets around the courthouse. When it comes to snow removal they will be a pain. The curbs will get banged by the plows and broken then more money will be spent repairing them. Better spent on street repair like 16th St. What a ride!!

          • Primghar Resident says:

            Yes, Primghar just did the streets around the courthouse and did bumpouts. What a waste of taxpayers money and a hugh extra expense to our downtown businesses. It does not add to the appeal of our downtown, only more businesses would do that but our town does nothing to try to add to that which in the long run would improve our whole town. Just stop over there and ask any of the businesses how our project went last summer and how our businesses were hurt during the project and continue to struggle. Your downtown is a palace compared to what ours looked like when we started, but unnecessary costs don’t help anyone. Does anyone realize that the cost that was assessed to the courthouse property will be passed on to everyone in the county?? Maybe more voices should have been heard before Primghar took on that project (hind sight). One last comment, all of the extras lights that got put in around the square in Primghar was a hugh waste too, I live blocks away from the downtown and the lights shine into my house !!!! No kidding. And that cost will just continue to be added to my electric cost which is already one of the highest in the whole state of Iowa.

  7. dw says:

    Snow plow around them

  8. David Popkes says:

    I don’t like the bumpouts, but there is a thing Called ADA compliance which makes the city put them in. we have no choice but to do it. You would be surprised as to how much is dictated by the State and Federal government that the city has to comply with. It is not my choice. Also Insurance mandates have to be complied with. While I’m here, how about everyone keeps their places clean. It makes a town look better and more attractive to live in.

    • Tim says:

      Dave.
      I commend you for your post. You open yourself up to a multitude of op-eds, but at least you have the forthrightness to voice your opinion.

    • Jon says:

      I would think that a leader in a community which serves a large number of residents who have a vested interests in ADA standards because of the presence of Village Northwester Unlimited would be a bit more receptive of these types of guidelines. It’s very easy to pass blame on to someone else.

      • Dave Popkes says:

        I was hoping we could get the ramps in with the sidewalk area, but with the new standards we need to put the ramps into the bumpouts so that there is a 4 x 4 flat area at the top. I really appreciate the VNW because they are an important part of our community, and the city is working towards the entire being ADA compliannt, because everyone in their lifetime will need handicap assessability.

        • Jon says:

          Thank you for the explanation. I didn’t mean to give you a hard time, but I figured there was a logical explanation for why the bump-outs are needed to meet ADA standards.

        • Moe Snaps says:

          Dave, I understand that it is very important for the city of Sheldon to be very vigilent to the needs of VNW and its residents, I am not against the bump outs if they are mandatory or will be very benificial to the VNW residents. That being said there are two different people on here stating that bumpouts are not madatory by ADA guidelines where you are saying that they are. Certainly you can provide some sort of reference material or source for you information. Citing sources is basic concept that is tought from grade school. If a student is required to cite sources for something that will only affect their own grades, I think it is reasonable to ask that someone trying to spend large amounts of tax payer money on something that will affect an entire town should be held to higher standards.

  9. Moe Snaps says:

    Dave, I am curious where you are getting your information that bumpouts are required in order to comply with ADA. I found this: http://www.ada.gov/pcatoolkit/chap6toolkit.htm but there is no mention of bumpout being required. Link to your sources?

    • Sid says:

      Here is a paragraph from ADA Standards for Sidewalks……Curb Ramps
      Curb ramps are required wherever a sidewalk crosses a curb. This is particularly important at street intersections, where individuals will interact with traffic. These ramps must have a slope of less than 1:12, must be at least 36 inches wide and must contain a detectable warning device with a raised dome surface and contrasting color. Ramps must not project into the street, and where there is a marked crosswalk, the ramp must be contained entirely in the width of the crosswalk.

      Read more: ADA Standards for Sidewalks

    • Dave Popkes says:

      Ramp pitch has to be 1 inch to 1 foot, 6 inch curb, so ramp has to be 6 foot. Side walk is 4 to 5 foot, and should have a flat space to turn, so we need to put an extention in, length to be determined, According to the engineer, there is some new rules not yet out. I have dealt with a handicap person, and this is very logical dimensions even without the rules. Someday when everyone is older they will appreciate that.

      • Sid says:

        Dave we appreciate the “info”, but if the new rules are not out yet how do we know that there is not some other option that would allow even smaller bumpouts that would leave parking spaces and not cost so much?

        • Dave Popkes says:

          The city will continue to work as we go through the design stage to get them as small as possible.

          • Concerned Citizen says:

            Hi Dave,
            I think you answering all these questions is great and soon will get out of hand. However it may be the beginning of a great tool for the city. As a person that has been in your position on the council it may warrant the discussion that the city have an open web forum like this for the citizens to be able to give their opinions and to ask questions. Then someone from the city office can check it and answer with facts. The citizen could direct question or remarks to their ward rep. I know we always were trying to get the citizens involved, but never heard anything until after the decisions were made that they either didn’t understand or didn’t have all the info on and believed the coffee shop reporter who never even came to a meeting. Keep up the good work.

  10. Meets says:

    I too commend Dave for addressing this site. Proves that they are watching, reading, being informed on this two cents worth website. I am not sure where Ada claims you need bump outs either. I work with Ada and have a vast knowledge on the laws from handrails, signage to parking lot spacing. I have not seen anything about bump out compliance codes. I also agree with the primghar person above. Total waste of money, the lighting proposals are also, in my mind, a waste of money. Sure make street, water, sewer improvements. All the money and beautification of the streets scape project will not bring in more downtown businesses. I am still wondering who decided to spend all that money and make a fancy back alley parking space for the dental clinic. Sure looks nice, pads a contractors pocket, but I have yet to witness a person sitting there besides a car or two parked on the backside.

    I commend the new barber shop. Stopped in the other day. Nice addition to an older building, a husband/wife duo (I think that’s what he said) working together. I didn’t get into his financing situation but I don’t believe anyone came to him to start a new business in town or help with tif money or low interest loan or whatever. No bump outs were provided, no fancy lighting was provided but yet this young man decided to invest in himself, his community to the betterment of his future family. My hats are off to him. That is what the downtown needs.

    • Rainbow says:

      Let’s face it, bump outs are in and no matter how attractive downtown is, shopping downtown is to say the least is frustrating. It is already difficult to avoid damage to a vehicle with parking so tight, even if you park in the city parking lots, vehicle scrapes and dings still occur. A person when backing out cannot see past longer higher profile vehicles. We are just lucky that most people in general understand the hard visibility and wait for someone to back out. I personally feel that when the cost of bump outs is passed on to store owners, I will just do more shopping online. Downtown beautification will by no means influence me personally, to shop more downtown. I don’t need pretty; I need to be a savvy shopper. Taxes go up, but most incomes don’t.
      I must say the first major storm, like out east, after bump outs are completed our city snow removers will be thanking our dear city staff for bump outs! Imagine how many will be chipped up and the amount of damage to plows overtime of snow removal. Although I don’t think any of this will matter, our city just like the federal government has an unlimited checkbook, Citizens of Sheldon are their banking security. It really doesn’t matter what the people in general want. It is who is in control.

      • Dave Popkes says:

        You are saying that I don’t care about how much taxes go up. I do care, being a business owner if my building is worth 100,000.00 and the tax is $1.00 per thousand than my tax is $100.00 but if you have a house that is worth $100,000.00 then your tax is around $47.00. So every one on the council is paying the highest tax rate, and if taxes go up then we are the ones who get hit the hardest. So if you think that I like tax increases you are wrong. Being downtown, the busineses pay more per running foot than most anyone does. The downtown needs to be keep up, kicking the can down the road will only prolong the inevitable. The street lights are old and some of the wireing is bad, the streets are cracking up, and alot of the sidewalks are bad, I would like to widen the street by 2 feet if we can, or make the diagonal at a steeper angle so it is easier to see and have more room. I,d like to see better decorations, farmers market in the Park where Puccies used to be, more gatherings downtown, maybe some flea markets, or outdoor sales in the Park downtown, some festivals, dances, etc., anything to get our downtown more vibrant,and busy. Most of the buildings are being used now, maybe one small one open, and alot of out of town people like our downtown, even those from Sioux Center and Orange City Shop Here. Our town is a good town, it has been my home for over 40 years, and has been really good to me, I thank all of you for your support, and I will continue to lower taxes, and push for growth in this community.

        • Jon says:

          Dave: I think those are admirable goals. It is unfortunate that there are vocal people on here who don’t share a vision for a community downtown that is vibrant and even attractive. I would say that while I do think this is a valuable place to voice opinions, that sometimes this type of formant turns into a place where people are just going to complain, often without being informed. Usually, people are only going to write opinions on message boards like this if they have a gripe, and few people will write if they are satisfied with the situation or at least don’t have a strong opinion. I do think that the city and you are working with the good of the community in mind. If you find that there is dissent, you might provide some opportunities to inform the public about exactly what is going on in this project and the ways in which you’re working to keep costs down AND get a project that is actually worth doing to help the infrastructure and aesthetics of the downtown area. Then, of course, after providing those opportunities, you will frustratingly find that you can never please everyone. That’s the way things go.

      • Jon says:

        I actually think the city is acting responsibly in its street projects, even the downtown one, to be able to use sources that do not affect tax rates while working on projects to better the community, and yes, this includes making the downtown a more attractive place. The project is relatively frugal given its scope, and it is work that is long overdue.

        • Johnny Rotten says:

          The downtown streetscape DOES increase the affected property owners taxes. If they can’t pay the 10-20 grand it will cost them out of their pocket, the cost will be added to their taxes! NO CHOICE!

  11. Sheldon Citizen says:

    If the city council won’t let us vote on the bumpouts, let’s remember that when it’s local election time.

  12. Hank Rearden says:

    Bumpouts are a good start, but if you really want to be on the leading edge and trendsetters you need to get some roundabouts in Sheldon.

  13. biker says:

    I still think there is a committe or sub committe or someone who thinks their special that runs the downtown and comes up with these ideas of needing “bumpouts, different lighting, a seating area in the old pucci’s location. That is fine and all but to what good? To say you knotched this one in your belt? The pucci location was bad. IT does look great. But now are you going to make the dentist man re-do his side of the building? If I was him I would say its just fine as is. Kiinda an eye sore but its still intact. Then the city or committe or sub committe will force it upon him to re-do his “eye sore”. My question would be great, lets do it. You (city, committe or sub committe pay for it). No different than giving businesses uptown money to re-do there fronts or add signage or whatever that was meant for. Sure some buildings look better than others but where is that program right now?? I know in Orange City it is manditory that all buildings look dutch. Great theme. But has anyone asked or called a business person or the city how they handle the design, the specs, the monies involved? IN regards to snow removal. Look around town where there are curbs. Banged up, missing cement, patched cement, looks awful. I know it may be hard to avoid hitting them when doing snow but really?? bumpouts to attract more people? I think after a few years use they will be like the rest of our streets in this town, holes, water traps, uneven terrain, and maybe like I do, I get sea sick easliy so choose your streets wisely! Also in regards to this ADA ramp stuff. I was in a town ( i wont mention). that had re-done certain locations in front of certain businesses – those located on an intersection – they simply re-did the concrete and worked it back up to grade. He told me there city crew did all the work. They looked at different avenues to persue but in the end this was there decision – he stated a wise decision based upon the city needs and money to spend. I would also like to see these “new rules” of ADA. There website has 2013 rules, etc to abide by. I made a phone call to there office of operations, the lady told me that there is to much info to give over the phone so go to there website. I asked if there were new rules out. She stated she didn’t know of any as there website is up-to-date for 2013. So I ask – are these rules that are coming down the pike in 1,3,5 years or something that is being debated and “could be”. At this time I am not buying into the “new rule” excuss or being pre-empted for the bumpouts.

  14. PCA says:

    Instead of bump-outs, why can’t the corners be cut out and converted to the ramp needed by sloping the concrete from the corner to the edge of the walk area? Would be close to the six foot needed for six inch curb, and you wouldn’t need the turn area since the ramp would go straight to the walk each way at the corners.
    Why does downtown have to have the bump-outs, but it ok for every other corner in town not to have them?

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