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Equal Rights?

Date posted - December 2, 2013

America has always been a land of segregation. We had laws that would prevent people of non-white decent from being treated as equal women couldn’t vote like their white husbands.


Fortunately, Americans have slowly been becoming open minded when it comes to equal rights. But whenever we, as the people of the “Free” World try to take another step towards equal rights, there are always a select few who that desire others to have fewer rights than themselves. When segregation was abolished, there were mobs forming at schools that were once considered white only, all because of racism in their hearts. Women had to fight tooth and nail to have the same political power as any man in this country.


In recent years, the gays and lesbians have been fighting for their right to marry like any couple in this country. And to this day, you see protesters AGAINST gay marriage. Although these protesters lives would not be affected in any way if gay marriage would be legalized on a national level, they continue to try to halt social growth and equal rights. The United States is supposed to be the land of the free, but how can we when we hold rights from select groups. The United States is one of the slowest country to accept change and to grant equal rights to all.


I want this country to be number one again. Number one in education, college education, jobs, health, and freedom. I believe, regardless of one’s personal beliefs, everyone should have the same rights, regardless of gender, age, race, sexual orientation, religion, or culture. I think it’s ridiculous when people put so much effort into stopping a movement that in no way will affect their own lives. What ever happened to the saying, “Live and let live?”



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115 Responses to “Equal Rights?”

  1. Free Man says:

    I can solve your gay marriage dilemma in one easy step; Get government out of marriage. I assure you that with no financial incentive given to married couples by the state the Gay community will not be rushing to the alter.

    As for the other points in your manifesto, just give it time. When Obama and Co. are done implementing their agenda we will all be equal in our misery and suffering, with the exception of those in the Apparatchik.

    • been around the block says:


    • Lee Ann says:

      You must be one of those people that believe if there is no financial incentive to marry, most heterosexuals wouldn’t want to marry either. There are some things more important than money. Although to be fair, if hetero people get financial incentives to marry, so should same sex marriage people. But people marry for love, companionship, to make a home together, etc. Just like everybody else, same sex marriages are for the same reasons.

      Instead of getting the government out of marriage, we should get the Church out of marriage. And before all the Christians get all upset, marriage in our country has always been a civil contract between two people and two families. It has to do with inheritance, protection of the inheritance of the children, and no inheritance taxes between spouses. Its a civil relationship. If the Churches want to have a “Sacrament of marriage”, fine.

      • Free Man says:

        Marriage is an institution of the Church and ordained by God to be between a man and woman. It has only been in recent history that governments have inserted themselves into to the mix to extent we see now, and the only reason a marriage license is needed from the state when married in a church is because the modern 501c3 churches are afraid to lose their tax exempt status.

        What we are seeing now is the end result of government inserting itself into a private contract, and giving special status (tax exemptions, rights of survivorship, spousal insurance coverage etc.) to a select group of people. I don’t blame the non religious and Gays for wanting a piece of this action, but getting the government out of it completely will give marriage back to the Church and it’s followers, and the rest will be free to follow their consience without the incentive of government largess.

        • Lee Ann says:

          Marriage in the Bible as an institutution was one man, three wives, four concubines and a few slaves.

        • LazloTu says:

          Typical response from the self-entitled far right. Gosh, if we could just go back to those good-old-days when you could buy a few slaves, and keep the women in the kitchen and bedroom where they belong…..

          • Jon says:

            Not everyone from the right thinks like that. I am a young Conservative Republican, and I believe women are definitely equal to men. Now, with Gay marriage..Its not a political thing, its a religious thing.

          • Ducky says:

            Jon, is it not true that Conservatives believe in a SMALLER government? How can a government be small if it controls who you can and cannot marry. I wouldn’t fight you if you think it is wrong for two people to marry in your church, but what about a court house? There is supposed to be a separation between church and state anyways. But how can conservatives believe in smaller government when they want more regulations in the personal lives of its people?

  2. Red says:

    I keep telling you, you are a Libertarian. You don’t believe me, but some day you will!

    • Free Man says:

      Libertarians do not believe in large government programs, social engineering or having the government controlling all aspects of our personal lives. From reading what Ducky writes here in these 2 cents I have the impression he believes in a large and powerful Federal government that does all the above in the quest for “Fairness”.

      I fail to see any shred of Libertarianism.

      • Ducky says:

        Actually, that’s the point. In government and politics, not every group or sect is treated fairly. The only people who can change these policies are the politicians. So, yes, the federal government should be able to change how it treats isolated groups.

  3. Old wrestler says:

    While I agree with what you are saying it is their right as a free country to protest something that will have no affect on their lives.

    • Ducky says:

      Of course they have the right to protest. But it is a matter of asking why. There are plenty of people out their that make it their life mission to limit the rights of others, like the Westboro Baptist Church, anti-gay movement parties, extremist republicans (Fox News and beyond), etc.

      • Free Man says:

        And the extremist left wing Democrats (America’s Socialist Party) never say a word or try to stifle the free expressions of Fox News or the Republicans they disagree with.

        Pot, meet Kettle.

        • LazloTu says:

          I’m pretty sure the blowback on sources such as the Murdoch clan, is due, not to stifle “news”, but to call out the lies they spew.
          Unfortunately, most of the fox-followers rely on that source and are too comfortable with the simplicity; they do not want to be confused with facts.

      • Old wrestler says:

        The why is what makes it freedom. You can protest for or against something because it’s what you want. The same could be asked of why do some people make it’s their life mission to push for rights of others? Because it’s what they believe and that is why they do it. Just as you don’t want them to tell you how to think they don’t want you tell them what they should think, how they should live or how their lives should be shaped. You are asking the question of why they do what they do but the same questions could be asked of you. On issues like this there is no right or wrong answer it is merely what answer each of us wants to be the right one. For everyone who says they believe one way there are those who believe it should be the other way and both have their reasons and the only ones you think are wrong are those who oppose your views just as those on the other side only believe what supports their argument. This isn’t a simple black and white answer this is just an opinion based fight on this issue.

        • Harriet Oleson says:

          I agree with Old Wrestler 110% and I’m sure all of Walnut Grove feels the same way.

        • Ducky says:

          We don’t always have the freedom to protest. How many people have been arrested for peacefully protesting? How many times have people tried protesting and cops pepper spray them?
          Don’t get me wrong, if a group protests by breaking in windows and looting stores, flipping cars, etc, I believe they should be arrested. But my problem is when people who get arrested for practicing their first amendment rights in a peaceful manner. Honestly, there have been times protesters have been arrested for singing on government property. There are even protesters who get arrested for wearing a mask in public. We seem to be going backwards when it comes to individual freedoms.

          • Old wrestler says:

            You didn’t address my point, it’s their right to protest a belief you don’t like. You change the topic from being that they are protesting against gay marriage a belief that you say doesn’t hurt anyone which is their right to do to instead comment on how it’s wrong protesters are arrested. Which protesters being arrested are you upset about? All protesters or only those who believe the same as you? If west burrow (who I disagree with strongly on their beliefs) protest against gay marriage peacefully and they were arrested for it would you be on here demanding that they be treated better because they were only protesting within their rights? Something tells that you would say nothing about that as it wouldn’t be hurting the cause you believe in and you would instead say how many people who supported gay marriage up to that point had been arrested and how this is only fair turn about.

          • Ducky says:

            Old Wrestler,
            I think you missed a point I made. I’m not saying disallow those who do not agree with gay marriage from protesting. The point I am making though is that we can’t let some groups have some freedoms and not allow others the same rights. If you and your spouse have the right to marry, why can’t the gay/lesbian couple down the street be allowed to marry too?

            But yes, everyone has, supposed to anyways, have the right to protest in a peaceful manner. I am upset when any peaceful protester is arrested, even if the protestor is against my own beliefs.

      • Doug says:

        Did you go to a White House strategy meeting last weekend?

        Seems like you spend a lot of time creating division and unrest, and then turn around and blame all of the worlds problems on Fox News.

        Did Fox News write the Bible?

        Fox News reports the news, they don’t make it.

        • LazloTu says:

          Quite a leap there, Doug…. I don’t believe anyone blames everything on Fox; Fox isn’t all that powerful in the whole scheme of things. However, your assertion that Fox “reports the news…” is inaccurate – they merely get paid by the wealthy-right for making stuff up so it’s fans can hang their hats on it and remain in their comfort zone.

          • Ducky says:

            Ha! Couldn’t have said it better myself!

          • Tim says:

            It gets so old and tiring to listen to people “claim” Fox news and Bush are either to blame for all that is wrong or they are inaccurate. Just because some don’t agree with a news reporting system, they condemn it. I never see those who condemn Fox news condemning MSNBC, and you may not think so, but MSNBC is just an extension of Obama.

          • Not so young but not really old guy says:

            MSNBC is accurate?

          • Ducky says:

            Fox “News” is a very currupt and extremely biased “News” channel. Yes, they report some actual news stories, but the channel believes in controling the minds of its viewers more than actually broadcasting the news. The whole war on “Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays” started with Bill O’Reilly and Fox “News”. And the only people you see get upset when someone wishes them “Happy Holidays” are the extremist Fox News viewers.
            And yes, there are other news reporters we all dislike besides the Fox “News” Cast. Yes, other news sites have their own biases, but Fox “News” takes it to the extreme. Fox uses fear and lies to control the viewers… kinda like Hitler and the Nazis.

            Dislike button over here. Click away >>>>>>>

          • Lee Ann says:

            Fox news has admitted they are entertainment, not journalism. MSNBC has a lot of radicals, but they also have some good solid journalists there. Not all of them. But its up to people themselves to decide who they listen to and who they turn off.

          • Doug says:

            Lazlo, I think your claim that Fox is “making stuff up” has little to no merit. In other words, prove it.

            Lazlo, you try to make everyone believe your news sources are so reliable, but for some reason you never bother to make the connection between key players in this administration and the major news outlets.

            There’s no leap there, it’s fact. Do I need to find it for you?

          • LazloTu says:

            Doug – First, I’ve never mentioned any of my news sources. I do, however, utilize, et al, to look into the validity of what’s in the airways.

            It is true that Rupert Murdoch admitted they receive payments from conservative groups to promote conservative talking points. Aside from the ethical problems, Fox listeners take what they hear as truth and support for their own conservative views/beliefs.

            So, why don’t you go ahead and reveal the Administration’s “key players” and the major news outlets. And tell me if they pay for favors.

            Yes, please; prove it for all of us.

        • Doug says:

          Yes Lazlo, you never mentioned any Fox “making stuff up” evidence either. No doubt, Ducky has nothing to support “Fox “News” is a very corrupt” either. Of course I was stunned to see there was absolutely no bias at either. You might want to factcheck their parent organization and persons who served as Chairman of the Board for other parent sponsored organizations. Nothing to see here folks.

          Onto the challenge, however I shouldn’t have to do your homework for you.

          CBS News President David Rhodes’ brother is Obama Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes.
          ABC President Ben Sherwood’s sister, Dr. Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, is a Special Assistant to Barack Obama on national security affairs
          CNN Vice President Virginia Moseley is married to recently resigned Obama Deputy Secretary of State, Tom Nides.
          Claire Shipman is currently the senior national correspondent for the ABC program Good Morning America and happens to be married to White House Press Secretary Jay Carney.

          There a long string of “inconsistencies” in Mr. Obama’s “stories”, the most recent of which go something like “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor”, explained away with a simple “I am sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation, based on assurances they got from me” as if somehow more than 5 million policy holders got it wrong.

          Just today, President Obama acknowledged that he lived with his Kenyan uncle for a brief period in the 1980s while preparing to attend Harvard Law School, contradicting a statement more than a year ago that the White House had no record of the two ever meeting. Of course this denial was shot down when the uncle himself testified to the fact in immigration court on Tuesday. Oh snap!
          I believe the average person would be able to clearly, and I mean without a doubt, distinguish the difference between an uncle he or she had met, and one they had lived with. If a President were going to lie about something as simple as this, what wouldn’t he lie about?

          Here’s a link to a Pew Research Center study on distribution of news vs. opinion of three major networks

          As I look for unbiased information to respond to your challenge, what is interesting is the overwhelming amount of information that points toward the liberal bias in the US media.

          If you get an engineer degree, you can keep your engineer degree. Or can you? Maybe then it would sink in.

          • LazloTu says:

            Thank you for the link, Doug. It provides some useful findings but doesn’t really provide much perspective beyond the graph. Some of the comments re: the graph point out additional perspective: one comment pointed out that MSNBC hosts provide significant ‘analysis’ of news stories; I would agree with that, and it is that analysis that is of value.

            Dr. Maddow particularly is a very astute analyst, and it this content I value. MSNBC makes no claim to be a ‘news breaker’. However, to my knowledge, MSNBC does not take contributions for the purpose of furthering liberal agendas. Cannot be said re: Fox. Fox News has relatively low ‘opinion’ content according to the Pew study – not surprising since the staff is not being paid to ‘think’ or ‘analyze’.

            I’m not sure what problem you have with, despite your claims that they have a shady parent company. The following link takes you to the mission statement, and will reveal some relevant history.


            I’ve not looked into the relationships you describe as of yet; I doubt, however, that there is anything close to a ‘smoking gun’ to be found. Your other heartburn over Pres. Obama’s “lies”; you’re trying to make hay with ditch-weed. I don’t recall him lying about WMDs in Iraq or elsewhere……..

            The following link speaks to the uncle issue; not sure why you need to make more of it than is there.


            Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

          • Doug says:

            Interesting that you have to resort to the “blame Bush tactic”, to respond to Obama’s lie of the week. You can’t prove Bush lied. It’s never been proven. Your repeating the same false claims over & over, does not create truth out of them. You can’t recall Obama lying about anything, is because you refuse to believe it is even possible. Your news sources won’t report it, so you can’t believe it.

            If you believe Fox News is reporting “making stuff up” why aren’t they sued for libel?

            Where is it shown, that “It is true that Rupert Murdoch admitted they receive payments from conservative groups to promote conservative talking points”? More false claims?

            Just because the propaganda machine that you choose to believe isn’t reporting everything that’s going on, does not invalidate the truth.

            Until your team find a way to repeal the First Amendment and defamation laws, you will not silence the truth.

    • Eric says:

      If the country is so “Free”, why am I being forced to accept the ACA? If the country is so “Free”, why does the government want to take my guns? Live and let live? How about “practice what you preach”?

      • An Idea says:

        We aren’t free if you think about it. The only free people are the ones with three kids no jobs and collecting our pay checks!!

      • Lee Ann says:

        I am sure that when counties and states began to tax property every year, people said the same thing. There are so many things we can do together, all of us, that we cannot do separately. I don’t have children in Sheldon schools, but I willingly pay taxes to help educate the children. You should ask the Heritage Foundation why you need to buy insurance. The individual mandate was originally an idea of the Republican party.

        Nobody wants to take your guns. There are millions of guns in this country, there is no way anybody could, or would want to, take guns away from every one. There’s a facebook page showing Gene Wilder and the comment is, “The government wants to take your guns? Which block are they on now?” Obama doesn’t want to take your guns. The Democrats don’t want to take your guns. But when 92% of all NRA members want universal background checks, I think that is very logical (ex NRA member myself).

        • Free Man says:

          I would hope the people put up a fight against “Property Tax” when it was made law. Property Tax took away the last vestiges of private property, and replaced it with a scheme where rent must be paid to the government in the form of a tax on the land you own.

          If this rent is not rendered to the government they will come with force of arms to confiscate your “Private” property and auction it off to the highest bidder. It does not matter if your family has owned the property for generations free and clear, they will take it to satisfy their needs if your “Rent” is not paid on the land you think you own.

          This is just one more example of creeping government socialism in the name of the greater good.

          • Harriet Oleson says:

            Good Grief, the sky is falling….

          • Lee Ann says:

            Harriet, I remember the “LIttle House…….” show when everybody had to pay property taxes. They were not happy. And standing in line, Charles said to someone standing by him,, “Just think, they’re saying that someday they will tax the money we earn.” And everybody was denying and arguing about that. We’ve come a long way.

  4. Jeff says:

    Fairness? Equal rights? Well why not farmers be city workers? Why should I drive a $60k BMW when you drive a ford pinto? Why should I have to opt for govt health care when it is maybe you I will be paying the bill for, or why can I afford to live in the south for the winter while you stay here in the frozen tundra? I AM a Bible reader and believer….union of marriage is bt man and women….financial gain?? I and my wife file separately, no kids no more for deductions, I assume you (ducky) are gay therefore this equation equals out. Why should I be worth in excess of millions dollars and your simply a college student. Why are you ncc and not Yale, Harvard, etc. Explain to me where fairness, equal, not passing judgement etc comes from. Live and let live…..exactly that ….just a saying. Talk is cheap, grow up! I understand you baited us in on this issue and I will be leaving again shortly but if this is what is being taught in the educational system where you claim to go (ducky) money poorly spent…I see where your support lies. To the rest of you enjoy the winter and holiday season as I leave to warmer climate in two days!

    • Faa says:

      If you want to assume Ducky is gay, I’m going to assume you should live or do live in Texas to match the size of your ego.

    • Ducky says:

      You lack any argument. All that I got from your post was, “Ha! Ha! I’m rich, you’re poor. Suck it!”
      Enjoy driving to your second house in your $60 thousand dollar BMW. If you find happiness in material things, I’m glad for you.
      Even if I had the money to go to Yale, I wouldn’t go because they don’t offer programs that I’m interested in. I want to build. I want to live a life where I design, build, fabricate, and invent new gizmos. I always loved playing with legos as a child, and now I have the skills to make every day things, beautiful signs made out of steel, and see my designs come to life. I am close to working my dream job and live a life of passion.

      Maybe the southern climate will warm your heart a little. Enjoy your trip.

      • Free Man says:

        The point of Jeff’s post seems to have went right over your head, but that left knee sure did react with a jerk.

        What I got from Jeff is that the statement “Live and Let Live” does not match the rest of your responses on the subject of government intervention for the sake of “Fairness”. No where did I see where he was gloating about his success.

    • LazloTu says:

      You seem quite impressed with your wealth, and with your ‘God complex’ – must be Old Testament you cling to.

      I believe Jesus advocated for the poor and the “least among us”. You, however, show only disdain for the less fortunate.

      Don’t get your hands dirty……

    • Archer resident says:

      Your attack on him is both rude and really does display alot of small town, (Archer, Seldon, Sioux Center, ect…) views. Now you are accussing some one of being “gay”. If you are a religious man like you said where, Accept, dont be spiteful and Why accuse someone unless you know all the facts?

  5. Freedom Fighter says:

    The only freedoms we have are those which are given us by the Creator. Because our Creator condemns homosexuality as sin, we also condemn it. This is different situation than slavery or women’s right to vote. There is a Biblical basis to support the abolishment of slavery, to support freedom of speech, to support women’s right to vote. We are a Christian nation founded on Biblical principles. As Christians, we need to promote our values and beliefs. There is no basis to support homosexuality – as it is condemned by the Creator.

    As to the original writers argument that allowing homosexual marriages does not affect our lives I totally disagree. There is a mountain of evidence that society is crumbling because of the decay of marriages. Children are being brought up in non-traditional households and all evidence shows that they are at a higher risk for a multitude of social, emotional, and economic problems. Talk to any social worker about what she/he sees as results of the breakdown of the family. Talk to your teachers about what they see concerning the breakdown of the traditional family. Each member of society is affected by the loss of our Christian values.

    • Red says:

      You can’t pick apart the Bible to suit your viewpoint. Slavery is all over the place in the Bible as well as a lack of women’s rights.

      • Not so young but not really old guy says:

        Oh cmon man/person/woman! That’s all you can see in the Bible? Really? OK, my argument is that the Dems are bad because of VietNam. Yeah, that’s a dumb argument! The whole book is bad? Seriously? What about John 15:13 “Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.” All of this hatred for the Bible makes me believe that the Obama Youth are getting ready for a good ol’ fascist book burning. No, that’s not President’s Obama fault, it’s the error of a few radicals. I’ve heard the arguments from both sides. Racism, and hatred run rampant on both sides; no side is innocent. On the outside looking in, it would appear that the far-left originating from Sheldon hate Christians. They can say all they want but I’m an outsider and it appears that way to me. The far-right wants to maintain their values and a lifestyle that they’re comfortable with. This will obviously cause friction.

        • Ducky says:

          The youth here don’t hate the Christians. Even though several of the young adults are living non-theist lifestyles, we still care for the Christians in our town. Not just the Christians, but people of all faith.
          The reason some of us (myself included) rant on about some of the Christians in this area is because of how SOME in the Christian community treat us. I am stressing the word SOME because only a small portion of a town of 5000 give us unrelenting grief.
          But if you had people constantly breathing down your neck and threatening your to eternal damnation in Hell several times a week, wouldn’t you get a little flustered too? But whenever we poke back at THESE CHRISTIANS (those trying to force God into our lives), we are seen as evil and just plain mean.

          Sorry if some of us have caused you to think differently of Sheldon. Religious conflicts tend to (for the most part) take place here on the KIWA Two Cents Editorial Page. People feel more comfortable arguing here and talking politics here than face to face. But Sheldon is a nice quiet town.

    • Ducky says:

      That’s funny. I read the Bible a couple times, and it has multiple views on marriage. It says in Deuteronomy22:28 That if a virgin is raped, she must marry her rapist. Then it continues to say that the rapist must compensate to the father of the victim for the damage of property with 50 pieces of silver.
      The Bible also says a man can have multiple wives and concubines, assign slaves to marry other slaves, and soldiers can take home women as property and force marriage on them. Oh, and it also says in Genesis 38:6 that if a married man passes away, his widowed wife must marry his brother.

      It is just another situation where Christians pick and choose what they want to believe. What’s worse is when “Christian” politicians force their beliefs on the rest of the country. What scares me is that I can see a local republican office holder actually defending the marrying of rapist and victim because the Bible says so. He already has some interesting views on rape.

      • Freedom Fighter says:

        Now who is picking passages to suit their needs?

        Biblical view of marriage? Between a man and woman.

        There is no lack of women’s rights in the Bible. A woman is to be respected, honored, cherished. When men do this the woman has the highest role.

        I noticed no one had a come back concerning the decline of society and the effect on children. The institution of marriage and traditional family is worth fighting for.

        • Rainbow says:

          Well said!

          • Ducky says:

            Woman’s rights in the Bible? Have you even opened your book? How many times in the bible does it refer women to private property of a man? Entertain me and read Deuteronomy22:28-30
            The Bible, especially in the Old Testament, is AGAINST any rights for woman, slaves, children, and foreigners. The Bible also tells you it’s ok to have slaves and tells you how to get your own slave (ie Winnings of war, taking your wive’s slaves as your own, etc) The Bible is anti freedom.

        • Ducky says:

          I’m not a Christian. I believe there are WAY too many contradictions in the Bible. And yes, I was once a Christian. I just don’t want to follow a religion that tells me to stone my own children if they misbehave, force my daughter to marry a rapist, stone my wife if she speaks out of turn (well, one of my many wives, of course), etc.
          So, let me get this straight… It’s ok if Christians pick and choose out of the Bible, but it is completely wrong if an atheist says uses your Bible to make a point. Why is it that I’m more versed in your Bible, Freedom Fighter, than you are. I even cited some passages for you to read that explains the Bible’s view on marriage, yet you still believe that your book says strictly “one man one woman.”

          • Not so young but not really old guy says:

            Ducky, If you were once a Christian, I’m guessing the break-up was ugly. This would cause a biased approach to your understanding of the faith; possibly all religion. I’m sure you’re excellent at art and building. You should stick to it. Philosophy isn’t your specialty. If you throw as much passion into your “building” as you do your “arguments” I might purchase something from you.

          • Ducky says:

            Not So Young,
            Actually, there was no huge break from my previous faith. Even at a younger age, I had problems understanding the Bible. In one passage, it said this. In another passage, it said the opposite. I got to thinking, “If God is perfect, and this is his book, shouldn’t it be perfect and clean cut?” And seeing other problems in the church and in Christianity, I slowly stopped going to church.

            I didn’t wake up one day and decide, “Hmmm, you know what? I think today I’ll be an Atheist.” It took years of doubt in my religion and I basically phased out.

            Normally, I’m an easy going guy. But when there are good people out there being oppressed, it fires up my nerves. I believe everyone should have the same rights. It really frustrates me when (About to explain my frustration with Fox “News”) society or powerful groups try to impede human social growth by treating other sects as a disease or second rate citizens. I believe everyone should be treated as a person.

      • Not so young but not really old guy says:

        How did you find the time to read the Bible a couple of times? I thought you were studying to fulfill your dream of building beautiful monuments? I work for a living. I’ve also obtained a degree from a University. I’m now working towards a Masters. You’re an educated person so I must ask, what was your frame of mind while reading it? Did you take a biased approach to your studies? If you read it twice I’m hoping you read it once with love and appreciation for Christianity. The Second reading of the book should’ve been with animosity and loathing for the Christian faith. I feel your views on Christianity are biased and that your thoughts are clouded by disgust. A person who has received a real education always questions a person who calls themselves “educated.” Bias clouds all understanding. Now back to my original question, did you really read it twice? I don’t believe your qualified to make an argument about the Bible.

        • Ducky says:

          Haha Well, prepare for a lengthy read.
          I was a normal Christian kid. Went to church a few times a month, went to Sunday school, and went to Bible Camp every year. As I got older, I went through the normal process of becoming a member of my church and began working at the Bible camp that I went to as a child. The work didn’t pay well, but I was happy to help out the Christian community and have fun doing so. But the more times I reread my Bible, I started realizing that there were too many inconsistencies (i.e. God gave Moses the commandment not to kill, but then ordered him to kill most of his followers for something that wasn’t yet considered a sin). I figured that it was no big deal and maybe there was a reason. The more in depth my reading got into the Holy Book, the more and more I was appalled. Slavery, cruel punishment, execution, murdering of young children for making bald jokes, killing babies, etc…

          And then I got to thinking about real world applications. If God loved this world enough to send his only son to die for our sins, why would he let the world be in the shambles it is in now. War, plagues, destroyed world economy, millions upon millions starving to death a year, child soldiers, rape, hate crimes, and even infant deaths.

          As my doubt grew, I found myself faking my faith more and more. I didn’t want to be outcasted by my Christian friends, so I had to pretend to have the same amount of faith they had. After all, I liked having friends and all of my friends were Christians. Eventually, my doubt evolved into nonbelief. In my early stages of being a nonbeliever, I became scared. I was told my whole life if I didn’t believe, I was going to suffer forever in Hell. So I continued to go to church (not quite as often), hoping that it was just a phase I was going through. But every time I went to church (I’ve gone to around 100 different churches), I could not force myself to believe in an invisible deity. I prayed for hints or clues or to hear the voice of God myself; my prayers went unanswered. As I kept going to church, I noticed a trend among the Christians that were going to church. For the most part, they mostly Sunday Christians. They were all holy and god-like on Sunday morning, but for the rest of the week, they were nasty. Lying, deceit, taking the Lord’s name in vein, premarital sex, gambling… you name it. The only times most of them were Christians was when it came to Sunday morning church and politics. I found myself getting disgusted by the hypocrisy. The church itself began appalling me. I went to this one church one time that severely needed money for studio camera equipment. They saved up enough donations to purchase 3 brand new television broadcasting cameras… and these things cost hundreds of thousands of dollars each. Instead of feeding the poor, sending out missionaries, or improving the community… they bought high definition video cameras instead. Not only did that church surprise me with it’s purchases, but also in what it taught. Almost every church I went to encouraged hatred. Hate the gays! Hate the Muslims! Hate the democrats! (Yes, I went to multiple churches that actually forced republican views and hatred towards the left parties). I hopped from one church to another, thinking that maybe I’ll gain my faith back in some form or another.

          I then adopted the title “agnostic”, which means believing in something out there, but not just sure of what. It just sounded better than not believing in anything. I could not face the fact that I was actually an atheist. Christians HATED Atheists. Agnostics at least believed in some form of higher power, and therefor had some sense of morality. The church pounded into my brain that Atheism was evil. Atheists were bad people and were violent devil worshipers.

          As I focused on my school work, I spent my free time being fascinated by science and math. I plunged myself into anything educational. I would watch the Discovery, Science, and History Channel whenever I could. I read amazing books that answered how the world really works. And almost everything can be answered through mathematics and science. I dumped out my brain and filled it with these more logical answers. Rain isn’t brought by a magical being in the heavens, it’s cause by evaporated water moving up into the atmosphere brought back down when the vapor collects and cools down, becoming heavy and falling back to the Earth. A creator didn’t save little Billy from his brain tumor, a skilled doctor did through the knowledge of science and training. I became so excited I learned as many facts as I could. I was so excited I annoyed my family with all of the new things I was learning. “Did you know this? Did you know that? Actually, it happened like this…”.

          It wasn’t until recently that I accepted Atheism. It was a matter of, “Shucks, who am I kidding? I don’t believe in that. I might as well face what I really am.” I don’t believe in a creator, but I don’t NOT (forgive the double negative) believe that something is out there. I have people constantly asking, “Well, what do you believe in after you die?” Honestly, I don’t know. Maybe it’s just black, quiet, and by the truest sense… nothing. Like the ending scene of Terminator 2 where his vision fuzzes out and then… nothing… And I’m ok with that. If there is a Heaven, great. I’m going to enjoy my one life the way I want to.

          Many Christian in this town are terrified of atheist. Being once part of the Christian community, I understand their reasoning. And I would love to be the one to break down the wall of stereotypes Christians have of Atheists. Yeah, I poke fun of SOME Christians (those who spread hate, prejudice, and are hypocrites) because they actually try causing chaos. I get along with almost every Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, you name it because I tend to live and let live. But I have no problem putting a person of faith in their place if the cross the line. I’ve seen some Christians try to use their Bible to excuse some of their actions (lying, stealing, violence, drinking problem sex, cheating, etc). Me, being well versed in the Bible, have no problem using their own bible against them to bring their god-like sense of being down a notch. But no, I’m not trying to convert people to Atheism. I understand why religion exists and why people follow it. It’s their own choice to follow it. But when your religion affects me or is destructive to other people, then I have a problem with it.

          Not So Young, I do have my days where I’m up at 6:00am and don’t get home until 11:00pm, but I still have some free time here and there. I don’t work and go to school every day of the week. Sunday, I have neither. You obviously have some free time of your own to be reading and posting on KIWA. Although I don’t read the Bible much anymore, I still have some time to read books, watch TV, socialize… just not as much as the average person. But if you are interested in asking more questions about me, I would gladly answer some of them for you.

          • Not so young but not really old guy says:

            First off, touche on the free time remark. I’ve had the honor of traveling this planet and meeting some remarkable people from all walks of life. I’ve read your statement. I do understand your conflict. I’ve also struggled with the evil in this world and asked “why?” I’m certainly not casting judgement. I’m as rotten as any person, who am I to judge? When I was younger I fought in a war. I saw things that made me question. I also saw remarkable things in War that changed my life for the better (strange but true!) Life is lived by seconds and you learn to treat each second with respect. I’ve learned that life is so very precious because it has an expiration date. It must be lived to the fullest because of death. Dying isn’t bad, it like all things must be respected. The Evil in this world is done by people. We’re not puppets on a string. Christians often see God as a our all powerful master pulling the strings. This isn’t the case. A true God would create for the purpose of relationship; imposssible to accomplish if we’re puppets. Free will is dependant upon the existance of a opposite. We choose to do evil. When wrong is done we learn from it. We can choose to forgive or hate. Life is complex and simple all at once. I’d never want to be in my twenties again. You’re in a tough period of your life. Stay with your studies and it never hurts to take a second look at somethings. Maybe view it in a second light. Philosophy isn’t your strong point…yet! Time and experience changes many things. Best of luck to you. Seriously, the offer to purchase something you’ve built is still there. You’re passionate about your beliefs, I hope you pour that into your craft.
            PS-I’m not made of money. If you’re building skyscrapers and bridges, I’ll be out of luck. It will need to be a small purchase!

          • Not so young but not really old guy says:

            Ducky, you know I’m a Christian. You don’t lie to us. I won’t lie to you. You’ve treated me with respect, I’ll give the same. You made a few statements that many Christians need to read. God doens’t want us to treat our walk with him as a Sunday only event. I’m far from perfect. I try not to judge; sometimes I fail. OK, often I fail. I try my best and that’s all I can do. Sometimes God works in strange ways. Your comments made me think really hard about my own behavior and walk.

          • JCs says:

            Whew, Confucius say, he who talk for long time not have much to say.

          • Archer resident says:

            YES! I do agree you you, your views are exactly the same as mine. Religion has been forced on me my whole life. Praise god, god makes all thing possible, if you dont believe you are going to hell. Who are you to judge if being gay or homosexual is wrong? Children of homosexuals are raised the same as everyone else. With love. You have no right to throw stones.

    • Lee Ann says:

      What part of the Bible wants to abolish slavery? A woman’s right to vote? Even marriage between man and woman, for procreation. Adam and Eve never married. In the Bible a man, three wives, four concubines and numerous slaves mean a marriage is between a man and “a” woman?

      The only reason that homosexuality looks like its a sin is because the Levites wanted to be different than the Greeks, etc. So the Bible says to not be with a man. And don’t spill anything on the ground, because that’s a sin too. The Ten commandments don’t say anything about it. Jesus, in the New Testament (even tho it was written years after he’d been crucified) never said anything about it. In Leviticus, you cannot eat seafood. That leaves out Red Lobster, right? Can’t wear polyester, can ‘t play with a football, or have a barbeque. These were rules for safety, the rules about pork and seafood. Imagine the food poisoning with no refrigeration.

      I have read the Sumerian Bible, translated, of course. But I won’t get into that even tho the Sumarians had way different versions of the same stories.

      • Not so young but not really old guy says:

        Interesting! I read this site often, usually for a laugh. Lee Ann I thought you said you were a Christian? I see your argument. It’s not a horrible stance. God has obviously revealed himself to man. interpretations will most likely differ. Cultures that have had no contact with one another have beliefs in a divine being(s). I think its absurd to think that the ancients are all stupid and that our science in king. I for one love History. I apologize, my A.D.D. kicked in again…DANG IT! Lee Ann, I’m still puzzled at one thing; where are your priorities in life? Is it God or politics? I’m not ridiculing or critcizing you, that would be stupid. You’re complex, very interesting. I think my Psychology friends would like to hang out with you.

        • Lee Ann says:

          One does not have to be a Conservative to be a Christian. There ARE liberal Christians. The United Church of Christ (UCC) offers same sex marriages to be married in their Church because they believe in it. Also the Episcopal Church does too.

          I believe strongly in helping the least of our people. The safety net we have now is not a safety net, its not enough to get by and successfully raise children. With the budget cuts for SNAP, cutting winter heat programs, daycare programs, WIC, etc. they are not helping the least of us. Crime is going to increase, because people will gladly steal to feed their families. I was on food stamps and welfare for five years when I was younger, because SS wanted me to care for my exhusband, who was certified insane, due to disease or defect. Its not fun. Nobody would choose poverty. I can assure you that given the choice of a decent job, or the “free” stuff offered by the government, everybody would choose the job. The “free” stuff just isn’t a good deal for anyone.

          Politics, in my view is what we need to use to get what we need for people, for infrastructure, jobs, etc. We will always have poverty in this world. And Jesus makes it very clear what one is supposed to do to help those among us that live in poverty.

    • LazloTu says:

      Christianity is practiced in a myriad of ways. Not all Christians believe as you do, or as you pontificate. It seems apparent that you completely disregard all other world religions, many much older than Christianity.

      So what if other practices and civil rights interfere with your comfort zone? Were you assured at some point that the world revolved around you? And, if you’re troubled with ‘discomfort’, you can be assured that you’ll likely not change.

      Oh, and there is a significant amount of study outcomes supporting same-sex partners parenting of children with positive outcomes. Talk with those who pay attention, and broaden your view of spirituality. It’s not ALL about you.

      • Ducky says:

        Heck, some of my friends had two dads or two moms. Even though they had same sex parents, they still turned out like any other normal kid. Kids with heterosexual parents still get made fun of in other ways too. Heck, I was made fun of for wearing glasses.
        LazloTu, I’m glad you brought that up. It doesn’t matter on the parent’s sexuality. There have been many studies that focus on non traditional families. And you know what all of these reports say? They say that the kids grow up normal and actually have more tolerance towards other people.

    • Jay says:

      Yeah, tell that to the gay couple who loves their kids, sends them to great schools, is there for them, feeds them, encourages their personal growth… Seems a lot better than the hetereosexual dad coming home drunk and hitting mommy in front of the kids. Get a hold of yourself. Gay marriage isn’t “decaying” anything, it’s the divorce rate that is decaying.

  6. sassy says:

    The young generation is more accepting of gay marriage because it is their normal. In my case, it is the redefining of marriage that I do not want. I am not against civil unions and what someone does in the privacy of their own home. It would be futile if I were. We need to remember marriage was an institution given by God for procreation. Also, what are the unintended consequences?

    Ducky, I beg to differ that redefining marriage will affect no one in any way. It is an institution worth fighting for, in my opinion. The other consequence of giving those with an agenda to end the institution of marriage an inch – well, let’s just say “they’ll take a mile”.

    FYI – this discussion has gone on for a long time – here is an op-ed from 2004.
    “What God Hath Not Joined – Why Marriage was Designed for Male and Female”.

    • Ducky says:

      How will two guys or two gals affect you or your own marriage? Sincere question and curious on your thoughts.

      • Freedom Fighter says:

        Ducky it doesn’t affect my marriage. It affects the community and society we live in. The acceptance of immorality in our society will affect us all for generations to come.

        • Ducky says:

          Please explain your answer

        • Ducky says:

          Please, Freedom Fighter, if you are defending not giving everyone the same rights that you have, please explain. Explain why you get to marry and others don’t deserve have that same right as yourself. You obviously have strong views on the subject. Can you please explain your reasoning?

        • Lee Ann says:

          Freedom, just because you say its immoral does not mean everybody else believes its immoral. I agree there is a certain ick factor in gay relationships, but that’s just my view. I don’t dwell on it. It doesn’t affect me. But nobody now marries for sex. If someone wants to have sex, they don’t automatically get married.

          People marry for love, companionship, someone in your corner in this cold cruel world, to make a family, to be seen by society as a real couple, together through thick and thin. That crosses all genders and orientations. In some states a same sex partner is not allowed to visit their dying partner in the hospital. If that partner dies, her children can be taken away from the other partner, never to see them again, the house, the car, is taken away. Nothing is “theirs”. Unless they legally have a contract to be married. They end up paying huge amounts in inheritance taxes. There are thousands of reasons, legal, financial, inheritance and just being a loving couple , for everybody to be allowed to marry.

          So you may say its immoral. I say that if it hurts no one, and it makes things more fair and logical, let them marry. it doesn’t hurt you or me. It hurts no one. And its a right in our country.

  7. Red says:

    Immorality and morality are a matter of opinion.

    • sheldonite says:

      one man one woman. 2,3,4 times is up to you! thats ok. now tell me how this institution is going to be saved by stopping gay marriage. divorce does not do anything positive for the children. read luke 16:18 real clear. adultery doesn’t matter if it is man or woman.

  8. als says:

    Why is it that in the USA, ILLEGAL immigrants have more rights than gay Americans???

    • Al says:

      Maybe we should all say a prayer for the children of gay couples!!!!

      • Ducky says:

        I pray that the Christian community won’t spite them for who their parents sexual orientation. I pray that they will be seen as normal, loved children by the community and by their caring parents. I pray gay couples can help orphaned children by providing them a warm home and two parents who love them very much.

        • Red says:

          Gotta’ ask, Ducky. If your an Athiest, to whom do you pray?

          • Ducky says:

            To the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It’s an inside joke.

            I don’t actually pray. I’m just hopeful that one day humans will get over this ridiculous, child-like behavior and prejudice and will one day… hopefully… every person will be seen as equal.

        • Tim says:

          I also have to ask…who do you pray to…another oxymoron???

    • just a thought says:

      We are so worried about stepping on other people shoes we Americans are the ones being discriminated against. A black kills a white kid no worries. A white kills a black kid omg its a hate crime. Child molesters living next door no worries but a person who smokes pot omg. Ilegals taking our jobs while others collect unemployment dont worry we will buy them health insurance.

  9. Concerned says:

    I thought Iowa was one of the first states legalizing gay marriage. So the state government enforces this law…correct? Doesn’t that include all the money things like filing joint tax returns, inheritance issues, insurance issues? I also see gay couples adopt children since it is kind of hard to procreate. It sounds like you don’t believe in God so I guess the church won’t be affected if they refuse to marry gays and their tax exempt status will still be safe even though you will feel discriminated against in that respect. The government will let that slide by I’m sure. And what about parents who do not want their children going over to a disfunctional home to play with your kids. Is it the governement you call because that’s not fair either. The United States is not fair, life is not fair, people are not fair. Just because gays marry does not mean we all have to like and embrace it. Hate the sin, love the sinner. I will treat you with respect and if I meet you on the street I will greet you and talk to you. I just don’t like the government stuffing their laws down my throat. I don’t like Osama OBama and I think he will try and conive with his Muslim friends to get another term in by declaring marshall law. If you think he will help with equal rights, he had better start getting some organization going on because I think the illegals are on his next agenda.

    • LazloTu says:

      Concerned: I was trying to follow you until you couldn’t resist your ending comment(s):

      “I don’t like Osama OBama and I think he will try and conive with his Muslim friends to get another term in by declaring marshall law.”

      Time for you to go back to your birther brothers and sisters and listen to more of Rush and the Fox entertainment crew.

    • Red says:

      The way Iowa went about legalizing gay marriage was wrong.

      • Lee Ann says:

        The way Iowa legalized gay marriage was correct. Technically one cannot have a majority vote for anything. after the courts legalized gay marriage here, people were yelling that it should be up to a vote. If we voted on people’s rights, we’d still have major segregation in the South. They had to bring in the National Guard to make it work. The majority cannot vote on rights for the minority. Rights are rights, not popularity contests. If its right for one, its right for all of them. Bob Vanderplaats tried and got several judges voted out of office for doing their job, determining rights for the minority. He called them activist judges. When a judge passes a judgment that one doesn’t like, they are called activist judges. When a judge passes a judgment that you DO like, they are called fair.

  10. Tim says:

    I have been out of touch for awhile. However, things seem to never change. Ducky wants his/her rights for the weed, and support for gay and lesbian community, and still lets us know he/she is not a Christian, yet he follows the Bible very closely in his/her studies. (oxymoron??) He/she feels picked on because people don’t agree with his/her views, and it is all Fox and Bush’s fault. Lee Ann, still thinks the gov’t is great, nothing to worry about, the bigger the gov’t the better, more free stuff.?? LazloTu…well I am not sure how to take his/her comments…seems they are geared for any one and everyone that does not have an “open mind”, but yet, in my mind his/her thinking is like that of an ostrich with its head in the sand, “what I don’t see or know about, is not happening. The Bible is no longer a relevant document, but yet it is quoted as such???? And if I may add, so many on here quote the Bible, either out of context or out of translation, or use the old testament laws to their liking..when the new testament (after Christ) changed a lot of those laws. people if you are going to use the Bible to support your views, use it correctly.
    On another note, the holiday season is here. Enjoy your family and friends. Be thankful for life, you never will know when God will call you to the next life. For those who don’t believe in God, well….. Christmas has no meaning for you I guess.

    • sassy says:

      Red, I couldn’t agree more! I am proud to say at least we did vote out the judges who usurped our right to legalize gay marriage or not by a vote by ALL Iowans.

      Tim, you are right on, too!

    • Lee Ann says:

      Tim, while I realize that there is no perfect government and ours has been way less than perfect with the obstruction and filibustering lately, God Forbid we have a major tornado come through NW Iowa and we all put our hand out for FEMA money and federal money to get out from under the horrible devastation, such as Moore, OK. Nothing is perfect in this world. But taking care of millions upon millions of people, it will never be perfect in the US. But look at the many things we cannot do separately. Even states do not have access to fix infrastructure, such as dams, bridges and hydroelectric, etc. The interstate highway system started by Eisenhower is a good example. We pool our taxes in the county to do the things that private citizens cannot do. Schools, roads, etc. That’s why we pay taxes. So, no, I don’t believe the government is perfect, but its a far sight better than each man being an island.

    • Ducky says:

      Just because I think it’s wrong to murder a person, rob them, etc, does not mean I follow the Bible closely. You and Freedom Fighter sure don’t know how to debate. You just point jabs, make some contridicting point, and then some how put your faith into your arguements. I’ve had more sophisticated conversations with a child.
      This topic is about granting the same freedoms to everyone. All that your post stated was, “Hey, look at those dumb liberals.” And then you wished everyone happy holidays. Please, stop making this small town look like we debate the same way as Fox News or George Bush.

      Dislike comment is comment is over here. Click away >>>>>>>>>

      • Free Man says:


        It’s hard to take your last reply seriously after you have said this just on this topic;

        “extremist republicans (Fox News and beyond), etc.”

        “but Fox “News” takes it to the extreme. Fox uses fear and lies to control the viewers… kinda like Hitler and the Nazis.”

        “Fox “News” is a very currupt and extremely biased “News” channel. Yes, they report some actual news stories, but the channel believes in controling the minds of its viewers more than actually broadcasting the news”

        “Please, stop making this small town look like we debate the same way as Fox News or George Bush.”

        I’m impressed with all these sophisticated arguments.

      • Not so young but not really old guy says:

        I like to debate! I just like to have an educated argument minus the emotion. Why all the emotion? The correct answer is in the middle. Fits of rage prevent anyone from seeing the truth. I agree with you Ducky. You’re a smart person, you know exactly what I’m saying. Careful in your statements. Your anger is causing you to fall into pitfalls.

        • Not so young but not really old guy says:

          Ok, my 2 cents. Opinions are like a 6th point of contact, everyone has one. Here is my own. Odds are that a God exists. Science can’t prove he does/doesn’t exist. The answer to the toughest questions are often right under our nose. The limitations of our own mind will often reveal the truth. Knowing that God most likely exists, I personally choose to follow a leader. My God would suffer and endure what his creation/subordinates feel. He’d walk a mile in his people’s shoes. He’d suffer for them. The almighty, infinite power would find a way to prove love. This leader would create a way to die for what the power loves. That is the ultimate form of leadership and compassion. If a God can’t offer that, I’m not buying. That is what matters to me! This is my two cents. You don’t have to agree. It’s just my opinion and passion.

          • Not so young but not really old guy says:

            This is why John 15:13 is my verse of choice. It sums up everything. Sometimes a very complex decision is summed up in a sentence or less. I’ve been through some tough spots in my life. I learned that people even at their best can fail. I find comfort and hope in a God that is greater than human. We learn from the bad, Improve and live on. Cherish each second of life and when your time is up; so be it. No loss, only gain.

        • Lee Ann says:

          I think Ducky has the black and white viewpoints of the young. Young people see things very strictly , there are no gray areas. The older I get, the more I realize that there is a lot more gray areas than just black and white.

          • Ducky says:

            Maybe so, but I don’t think my views on equal rights will ever change. There are political views I don’t share because I don’t quite know enough of the subject, but I will gladly share my views on anything that I’m passionate about. But my views don’t go uneducated. I go though hours of research, maybe even write a paper on a subject, before dedicating myself to a certain viewpoint. It’s likely some views, like the deficit, will change as I go through life.

        • Ducky says:

          Not So Young, sometimes its fun to use the same tactic as others to show how the other actually argues. If you go through the My Two Cents pages, you’ll see some very reasonable arguments from me. There are also some that mimic other people’s debating tactics, like Freedom Fighter’s. Throw in a little hatred, bless America, and then poke fun at others. I hope you don’t actually take them as serious arguments. Hence why I’ve taken it to the next step to make my sarcasm more obvious. (A little sarcasm here and there is actually quite humorous to me)

          • LazloTu says:

            Ducky, I admire your passion, and your drive to find answers and solutions to complex issues. Your curiosity will carry you far. It will be useful to also practice patience – answers will come; some sooner, some later, and some maybe not in this lifetime. Good things do come; you have a lifetime ahead of you, and I believe you will be one to make a positive difference for many. Pace yourself, Ducky…..

    • LazloTu says:

      Nice of you to drop by, Tim. I’m sure everyone on this thread appreciates your your self-righteous assessment and ‘objectivity’.

  11. Ducky's Mom says:

    I am saddened by some of your views. While you have the right to your view points and opinions on things, you were raised in a Christian home, sent to bible camps etc. I only hope your non belief is a phase

    • JCs says:

      Hey Ducky,
      Your mom sounds just like my mom. You probably know in the Bible it says to honor your father and mother. Even if you are a nonbeliever that can’t be a bad thing can it? On a totally different note, and not nearly as important, is 87 comments a record on this site? Ducky I’m going to put you in my prayers, which I know I can improve on.

  12. Long holidays says:

    Ducky do you have trouble making and keeping friends like my brother does? He always challenges people and wants to impress them with his views.

    • Red says:

      What’s wrong with challenging people?

    • Ducky says:

      Believe it or not, I know when not to open my mouth. Here on KIWA’s Two Cents, I can speak freely and rattle some bones of others. Most of the people on this site have already made up their minds on their own belief systems and will never change. I know that I won’t change their minds, but it’s interesting to see what other people believe in this general area. An example of this is the “Is It Time to Talk Marijuana in Iowa” article. I wasn’t trying to open any debate, I was just curious to see if the Gallup polls numbers could be compared to this part of the country. This is the first article I have posted that I actually want to change people’s minds on. Seeing that over half of my friends are part of the LGBT community, I wish to see them be treated the same as everyone else. Some of the people on this Two Cents page would be surprised to find out that their child is still in the closet. Unfortunately, I can understand why. I wouldn’t come out either if my parents had some of the same views as some as the people on this site. People, be careful of where you step. You never know who you might be hurting.

      If you found out that your own child was LGBT, wouldn’t you want them to have the right to be married? Have children (Your grandchildren)? Visit their partner in the hospital? Don’t we want to encourage love and understanding? Be careful with what you say, you might just hurt someone you love.

      • Doug says:

        I thought people who wanted to create change, weren’t afraid to stand up and speak out, yet you post in an anonymous forum.

        Why do you carry the cross for a Gallup Poll estimated Iowa LGBT population of 2.8%, which would probably less concentrated in NWest Iowa?

        I think it’s ridiculous when people put so much effort into PUSHING a movement that in no way will affect their own lives.

        • LazloTu says:

          And I think it’s ridiculous to scoff at someone advocating for a cause or alternate lifestyle. As for you, Doug, you seem to enjoy taking issue with anything other than what you believe; and regarding anonymity, it appears you practice that as well.

          By the way, the poll results also reference the distinct possibility that respondents were reluctant to acknowledge that they were among the LGBT community. Frankly, many estimates suggest ~10% nationwide.

          I wonder what the polls would show re: homophobia state-by-state?

          • Doug says:

            I am ridiculous and scoffing when I use one’s own words to call into question their motives?
            Entering the spin zone…

  13. Jay says:

    I think the biggest thing you all are missing is MARRIAGE DOES NOT NEED RELIGION TO BE LEGITIMATE. Marriage is a GOVERNMENT INSTITUTION. You do not need to marry in a church to be married in the eyes of the government. You cannot refute that. At all. Don’t even bother! Your marriage changes in no way, shape, or form with our gay brothers and sisters given this right. You’re probably just weirded out because it’s a different lifestyle than yours. Practice your true Christian worth and be loving and accepting of everyone involved – the gay community, the children of a gay relationship, the non-Christians, the democrats, the liberal Christians. You should want your brothers and sisters to be able to have the same rights as yours. Or… are you telling me that you don’t consider a gay man to be your brother? We are all God’s children right? Practice what you preach, posters. This is just getting offensive and you all are starting to look rather ignorant.

  14. Meets says:

    A few thoughts… Ignorant – lacking knowledge. I guess that may be myself……..

    Fox news being called entertainment? CNBN, MSNBC, etc. Rush, Hannity, Ingram, O’Rielly, say what you want but out of all seriousness sometimes the truth hurts. Sometimes we need to be called out. Sometimes our tunnel vision gets the best of us.

    Lee Ann – United Church of Christ – there main focus is being “1st” with everything they do…first black person, first women in office, first gay clergy. Real no sound doctrinal belief. The Sumerian Bible – serisouly? Your kidding right? Just a transcript of this obsured sense of reading…anyone here know about this? I ask if you know “AN” well you should since Lee Ann reads this bible…”AN” shared the universe with his sons. “AN” created “ANUNNAKI” the assembly of the great gods. With this supreme power from the original sea he created the sky and earth. Ok people read enough…seriously GOD said he is a jealous GOD…the only GOD, need I say more. Levites were the high priest from the family of Aaron. They were forbidden certain things b/c of there position. You also state the bible says marriage is bt man, a few women, a numerous cocubines….marriage is b/t one man and one women. Not a man/man woman/woman/ man/animal, etc. All wrong and all adultry. Adam and eve marriage…does not say “I DO” but in Genesis 2:24 GOD outlines the plan for all future marriages “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh” 1Peter 3:1 and 7 and ephesasins 5:22 and 25 Says the principles of wives submitting to their husbands and husbands loving and honoring their wives. This is to name a few Lee Ann. I think some on here think “love” equals rights, or mystery or magical emotions that can come and go but love must be nutured, it is care, consideration, compassion, eternal.

    Ducky…all things being eqaul….never happen, never will. That is freedom. For someone like yourself who glouts about being well versed in the world, bible, etc then I again agree with the statement from Jeff why you are not attending YALE, Harvard, etc you said b/c they offer a program your interested in b/c you want to build, design etc….sorry go look each college up they offer far more design/build programs than you could handle. You say people enjoy material things but you cant get over legal pot, gay marriage etc. Did not you state your an anthiest at best these days? Since when did you beleive in anything worth while anyhow. Deuteronomy 22:28-30 are you sure?? Ever read the 10 commandments – You and Lee Ann both.

    People quoting scritpure for there gain is totally out of context. Tim said it best. Freedom fighter also said it. IT wont effect me or my marriage but effects the generations to come. Legal pot same story different chapter. I do not understand how some on here can even celebrate Christmas…I assume you celebrate the birth of the Lilith (as I know in the past Lee Ann has spoken of such) chaos, seduction and ungodliness.

    To those that do beleive Merry Christmas. That is all things being equal of course!

    • Lee Ann says:

      Meets, regardless of your beliefs and following the Bible (which I respect), the world is changing. And it will not be stopped. You are certainly allowed to follow your Bible. I would never dream of interfering with that. But the dominos are falling. Marriage equality is coming. Obamacare will work and people will like it. It is the law. The Judicial system has been favorable to the ACA and also to getting rid of DOMA. And I don’t think its bad. And someday the majority of people will wonder what the big deal was?

      (and the word “lullaby” comes from the idea that singing to our babies will keep Lilith away from our small infants.) =)

    • Jay says:

      It affects generations to come? How so? Give me a legitimate reason. Are people going to turn into savages? Will the sun only shine for six hours a day? Will meteorites blast into earth? Will gay people rule the country and outlaw heterosexuality? Will marriages between horse and dog be legalized? Come on, give me a reason! Don’t give me a reason that has to do with the Bible… like, “We will lose touch with our true Christian values.” No, the reality is homosexuality has been around for all of time… it just seems like there is a higher number of members in the gay community because now finally most are COMFORTABLE to come “out.” I’m sure there were the same number of gays in this world in the 20s, 40s, 70s… but people didn’t feel comfortable being themselves because of people like most of the posters on here. When you claim to be Christian yet are so quick to tell another person they don’t deserve the same respect in the eyes of our government all because YOUR “God” forbids it… that’s not Christian-like, that’s just plain mean.

      Also, don’t make fun of Ducky. He/She is just explaining their views. And just because He/she is well versed in the Bible doesn’t mean they could be Yale bound… I’m sorry but being versed in the Bible isn’t exactly something that proves you have a high intelligence. Who cares where they go to school? I find it so funny with Christians feel their beliefs are “attacked” when someone like Ducky calls them out on it, and all they do is get defensive and stutter over their own words. That’s why you make fun of Ducky… you know you have been proven wrong/called out on so you resort to the good ol bullying trick. Nice.

      Let’s not forget that the Bible pretty much says we should all live in a patriarchal society where women should not speak up and men should dominate the household. Yeah, that’s some good life right there. (note sarcasm).

      • Ducky says:

        Jay, you’re trying to reason with a person who gets offended when people take quotes from the Bible to prove a point and then quoted scripture to prove his own points.

        But what’s with all the pressure for me to go to Yale? NCC is cheap and I can get what I want out of going their. Yale is expensive and far away from my family. I think any form of higher education is a good thing, no matter where a person goes to school. Honestly, I prefer being in classroom with only ten people opposed to 200.

        • Jay says:

          Ducky, have you forgotten we are in the presence of many Yale and Harvard grads ourselves? I almost forgot we are just commoners amongst royalty… lol.

        • An Idea says:

          a lot easier to deal with 10 people that don’t like you or what.