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Same Sex Marriage

Date posted - March 28, 2013

Editors Note: We have combined two submissions into the same post to keep all responses in one place

I personally think that same-sex marriage is wrong, and I hope these supreme court laws do not pass. This based on my personal beliefs and the religion i was brought up with, just wondering about other opinions?

— Shuffle

I don’t understand how a few years back AIDS was associated with gays and how it was so bad. Now people are asking us to condone same sex marriage. What happened with the AIDS problem?

— mr

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68 Responses to “Same Sex Marriage”

  1. Tim says:

    Its like this:
    Our ancestors of a few hundred years ago, would never have thought about same sex marriage, you would be stoned if you even thought about it. A wise older man once told me that as we as generation from generation let one little thing go, pretty soon, it is more and more acceptable by the next generation.. He told me once that if I stopped insisting in instructing my chidren in a certain way, (this happened to be with prayer, and church attendence, but it carries thru) that when they started to get their own family they would see how I let little things slide in their instruction, and they would start to let them slide in their own family. And I believe it works that way. What was once a very strict observance, has become one of “oh if we have time we will do it”. I am to blame as much as the anyone for that. He was right. Now thru society and generations we have allowed this misguided and perverted way of thinking what marriage was instituted for, and what it is. So where does it stop. Follow thru with things like, (oh start small and build) speeding, seat belts, not paying a bill, not getting a job, stealing, murder, abortion, rape, bullying, etc etc, the list will go on forever, will our society slowly find each of those things acceptable? Then what happens. I know some call it “progressive thinking”. It is not. Some say I need to just accept it, I need to get with the times, I am backwards in my thinking. Where will it all lead?

    • Free Ride says:

      Look where it has led in Iowa, people are no different in Iowa because of gay marriage. The slippery slope argument you use brings up not a valid point. Gay marriage is legal in Iowa so that means we have to make murder or drugs legal(based on your argument)? Has it lead to a fundamental crash of our way of life or our society? No, it hasn’t. Everyone wants less government intervention (Smaller Government) but you want government telling you who you can and can’t marry? You hoot and holler when they try to take some of your gun rights away but when you let the government decide who you can marry you cry foul if it is a gay couple. Did you know it use to be illegal for interracial couples to marry? Tim’s Wise Old man ” Now through society and generations we have allowed this misguided and perverted way of thinking what marriage was instituted for, and what it is.” I’m sure glad perceptions change over the years, hopefully this one will take less time than a generation.

      • Tim says:

        Free Ride: Reread it again!!! I did not say to legalize anything. Not once did I say anything about gov’t sticking its nose in. Not once did I say anything about legalizing murder or drugs, you just wanted it to say that. I said, our SOCIETY has allowed this. Society should stand up for what is right! “Has it lead to a crash in our society?” Probably not yet, but do you honestly believe our society is on the right path, morally? Tell me do you see the animal kingdom having sex with the same sex animal? What did God create a male and female for? Did God create two males, or two females? Marriage is the oldest institution known to man!! If you want to say same sex marriage is for love, so be it. The idea of marriage based on romantic love is actually a relatively recent innovation. The true purpose of marriage throughout the ages was advancement of family (procreation) and aliances between tribes. Perhaps (I am not advocating this idea, but..)this whole debate would go away if it were labeled, “civil union” and all the so called legal advantages of a “married” couple were also given to the “civil union” couple. (but do you really think the gay community will stand for that?) What they really want is equality and the same “status” as same sex married couples.
        Oh, and BTW, that “Wise Old Man” you want to demonize, was my father. Neither I nor you would stand up next to him in his perceptions of society!

        • Jon says:

          Actually, there is documented homosexual behavior in hundreds of species, including African bonobos, dolphins, flamingos, and king penguins, to name a few. In the case of the first two, the behavior appears to be social and instructive for adolescent males before they ultimately mate with a female at maturity, but in the case of the penguins and flamingos, some same sex pairs will mate for life and even adopt and care for orphaned young. However, I would suggest that it is perhaps NOT best for humans to take our cues from animals. After all, lions will often kill the weakest cubs in a litter and male lions don’t mate with a single female but have multiple mates, and many species of insects exhibit a behavior where the female kills and eats the males once procreation has taken place. Perhaps marriage was better when it was mainly an economic transaction and women were treated more like property, as it often was in the past. I don’t think this is a very good model either. I suppose I should be flattered that you think that a gay person has so much power in his immorality that by marrying his partner with whom he would like to spend his life that he is bringing about the downfall of society. However, I think you are overreaching the boundaries of logic. The gay couples I know who have married are faithful to each other, love each other, and are productive members of society. They have no malice towards traditional marriage and in fact celebrate with their friends and family members who enter into this union together. The fact tht gay people also wish to have their monogamous, committed relationships recognized is a testament to the importance of marriage as an institution that affirms it as a bedrock of society, not weakens or destroys it.

    • Max says:

      Bob Dylan said it best in his song, The times they are a-changin.

      The line it is drawn
      The curse it is cast
      The slow one now
      Will later be fast
      As the present now
      Will later be past
      The order is
      Rapidly fadin’.
      And the first one now
      Will later be last
      For the times they are a-changin’.

  2. Jacob says:

    The spread of AIDS is from unprotected sex with someone who has it. If two people get married, same sex or not, and stay true to their vows. There will be no worry of spreading aids. This might be the worst arugement against same sex marriage I have heard yet.

    • Jon says:

      Thanks, Jacob. I didn’t know we were having this argument anymore. While it is true that AIDS in the US disproportionately affects gay males, though it is almost nonexistent among lesbians, worldwide infection rates are higher for heterosexuals. The reason for this is that the spread of AIDS, which is a sexually transmitted disease, occurs most frequently in populations where there is unprotected sex with multiple partners, and it does not discriminate between gay people or straight people. The other common ways in which AIDS is spread is through blood transfusion or sharing needles (blood transmission carries the greatest risk of infection). Many people have used AIDS and its effect on the gay population in the US as a sign of their immorality. However, I would say it is actually a symptom of the marginalization of the gay population. Regardless of the problem, the fact is that many gay people seek a monogamous, committed, lifelong partnership with the person they love, a desire that greatly diminishes the risk of their transmission of diseases like AIDS. In this, it gives gay relationships stability and fidelity, the same type afforded to married heterosexuals. What should go without saying is that if gay people are allowed to enter into these kind of stable relationships and not forced into the shadows of society, then the instance of AIDS transmission in the gay population will diminish, a decline that has already begun with greater acceptance of long-term gay relationships and education on the risks for AIDS transmission. We should be in the business of encouraging stability and fidelity in all relationships and it is in our best interests to educate ALL people, gay and straight, on the risks of unprotected sex. That is at the heart of the problem, not the simple fact that they are gay. You would be upset with me, I assume, if I blamed heterosexuals for the explosion of the instance of HPV in our society, which disproportionately affects straight people. But then, the passage of this precursor to cervical cancer is also exacerbated by sex with multiple partners. It is time that we use logic and critical thinking and not assumptions to marginalize people and to help alleviate some of the serious problems that do face society.

  3. Chris says:

    If as a society we promote or call for tolerance, shouldn’t we practice it, as well?

    • Smiley says:

      Should we not also then “tolerate” sex with children?

      • Sue says:

        Smiley, how can you possibly compare the two? Sex between consenting adults is their business.. but to compare the debate of tolerance for same sex marriage between sexual child abuse is just wrong on so many levels.

      • Juie says:

        That is the most awful thing to say, how could you even compare sex with a child with sex with two consenting adults?? In no way does the love between two men or women affect your life in anyway… you have your beliefs and those are your opinions, not everyone has to agree with you, you can be gay and still belive in god, its not illegal to be gay, and if you are going to complain about HIV/AIDs among gay people look beyond that and say..what about the girl that got hiv at spring break cause she was partying to much, or that boy that got a girl pregnate and left her, now shes getting an abortion, and everyone is looking down on her but what about him?? Aids is not just a homosexual thing anymore, for a fact the lakes on spring break is the most dangrous place for kids to go gay or not, to get an STD. Open up your small minds NW IOWA, its 2013, we have a BLACK president, OMG! there are gay people who can marry! OMG! the world does’nt revolve around you! OMG!!!

        • Smiley says:

          It was a harsh comparison yes, but my point was to bring attention to the argument of “progressive” thinking. How far do we “let” or “tolerate” progressive thinking to go? What will society be asked to “accept” next? As a civilizaition we certainly must progress by recognizing mistakes from the past, ie slavery to only mention one, but the notion of “free love” will come at too heavy a price. I believe this partly because of how I was raised and partly because I have a deep conviction of my own belief of what is right and what is wrong.

          • Lee Ann says:

            All of these arguments have been heard before. When the Supreme Court decision that two people of different races could marry, people were horrified. When the SC said that we had to integrate the South, they used the same arguments. They had to call in the National Guard because people were raving mad about integration. Now its not a big deal at all. “Our country is falling apart. How can they let this happen.” Gays have been getting married in Iowa for several years. Has it changed even one thing for any of you? Did any of you get divorced and marry someone of your same sex? Did it devalue your marriage? No.

            And historically, Even in the Bible, marriage was not for love, it was to pass a treaty, to stop a war, to have an heir. Then they went to their concubines and gay lovers for their love. King Richard the lionhearted? He loved Prince Phillip of France. But he had heirs with his wife. That was his job. Native Americans had gay marriages for thousands of years. Look at the Greeks, the Romans, historically gayness was not condemned. Only the puritans coming from England to this country were against it.

          • Tim says:

            Yes LeeAnn…
            Lets look at the Bible, when people did as they pleased, God destroyed them. (Sodom and Gomorrah, Ninevah, and others) Lets look at the Greeks and the Romans, both ONCE great empires. Both gone. Oh and your idea of native Americans recognizing same sex marriage, where is that culture today? What rise to power has the native american taken? Just because others do it, doesn’t make something morally correct. Freedom is awesome, but it can work against you also. When a society thinks it is free to do anything they wish, it will eventually destroy the fabric that makes up a society.
            You said it best in your own definition, “marriage was not for love, it was to pass a treaty, to stop a war, to have an heir.”
            Why do people continue to defend something that seems be able to bring a culure or society to its knees?

          • Jon says:

            I also have a deep sense of what is right and wrong, and I think that it is reprehensible for someone to make a comparison like you’ve made, which essentially equates two consenting homosexual adults entering into a committed relationship with pedophilia. That would be the same as equating a hunter who owns guns with any of the sociopaths who’ve been responsible for the horrific shootings in this country. You would call such a comparison unfair, would you not?

          • Jon says:

            Yes, Tim, the Native American culture has not risen to power, but we in our “moral superiority” didn’t exactly help them, particularly when we supplied them with blankets infected with small pox, forced them off their lands, and slaughtered them. This is not to say that they were completely innocent as they certainly did attack settlements and fight against us, but we hardly have the moral high ground there, since we were responsible for the demise of Native American culture and “power.” I would also caution against using homosexuality as the excuse for the fall of Greek or Roman society, because the fact of the matter is it was ALWAYS accepted in those societies. What brought about the downfall was related more to the economic instability of the civilizations, where the concentration of wealth undermined the loyalty of subjugated peoples, coupled with mounting military pressure from outlying civilizations, causing them to mount expensive wars. It was greed, waste, and hubris that brought about the downfall of Rome and Greece, not gay people.

        • Dave says:

          What you may not understand is that if you “tolerate” one wrong, why not tolerate another wrong. If you think that there aren’t folks trying to legalize adult/child sex you are mistaken. Think it will never happen? 50 years ago, the thought of homosexuals living together and call it marriage would have been laughable. Ever heard of NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association – google it and see what their agenda is.
          Think it is love and it can’t possibly be wrong – read this story @ NAMBLA’s website Apparently that is considered “love” too!

          We are not supposed to hate each other or bully each other – that is wrong too. If someone says it is legal for me to hate and bully others, it still doesn’t make it right!

          What would Jesus do??? My guess (really – who am I to assume I can speak for God) is He would spend time with ALL of US sinners and encourage US to change OUR sinful ways. He would love us enough to not condone our sin (whatever it is), but He never seemed to be afraid to tell the truth (even when it wasn’t a popular view)!

          • Jon says:

            This is an argument that doesn’t hold water. We differentiate between types of “wrongs” all the time. Recently, a woman was the victim of a purse snatching, but fortunately for her and unfortunately for the snatcher, the woman had a pistol, and she proceeded to shoot him…6 times, killing him. She was acquitted of any wrongdoing, though she still is guilty of murder and killing an individual. Sure, the burglar was in the wrong, but would you really consider what she did to be right and not worth any sort of punishment? I don’t know.

  4. Hank Rearden says:

    Here is the perfect solution; Get government out of marriage. Put it back into the hands of the Church alone where it belongs since it is an institution ordained by God. Get rid of any tax breaks or perks that are now given to married couples by the State and have the government consider married people the same as single people for tax and entitlement reasons. There is no reason for Government to recognize and reward those who choose to be married in the eyes of the Lord at the expense of others, and doing so crosses the line of the first ammendment.

    The reason for alternative lifestyle types pushing for the “Right” to be married is simply for the perks that the secular State bestows on married couples, and in my opinion has nothing to do with “Holy Matrimony” as put forth by God. Marraige should be handled by the Church and the State should not get involved.

    • interested viewer says:

      Well said Hank, the church says that I’m married but the government could still recognize this legal union to all couples so that all are treated the same and receive the same benifits.

    • Lee Ann says:

      So make it Holy Matrimony in the Chuch. Call it marriage if you get married in the court house. You don’t need a church to get married but you need a license from the state. You can have all the ceremonies you want in a Church, but they mean nothing unless the state has its record.

      As for the marriage vs civil union idea, who among us wants to be the one t have something less than marriage? Any of the straight married people here think their marriage is less than anybody else’s? I can see why gay people want equal rights and the 1100 federal benefits, inheritance, medical power of attorney, taxes, survivors benefits. I would too. What about the military people? Their families cannot get benefits, housing, medical, survivors benefits. If a soldier dies in combat, they have to call his parent or his opposite sex married spouse. They cannot call the same sex spouse. Because DOMA does not recognize same sex. So it is hampering our country’s ability to have a military with family benefits, etc. Its time . Its not going to hurt any one of us. And it will give equality to all of the gay people in our country.

    • Jon says:

      Actually, the gay people that are getting married are NOT doing so simply for economic reasons, though this is the tangible and legal argument that carries the most weight in these court cases, but they are marrying as a sign of commitment to each other, of their love for each other, and their desire to spend their life together. It might be easy to trivialize their relationships by saying it’s just about economic reasons and this might make it easier to claim that they are somehow different or their motivations for recognizing their relationships are somehow suspect or different from those entering into traditional marriages. The fact is that these differences do not exist.

    • Jon says:

      Hank: As evidence to you that the ability to marry for gay people is more than the economic and legal perks associated for it, take a look at the number of out of state couples who have come to Iowa to get married. Many people have come to Iowa from neighboring states and from far away to go through the process of getting a certificate that recognizes their marriage. They are not residents of the state, and therefore receive no benefits for their trouble. For them, the important thing is the ceremony and the certificate that is a physical demonstration of their love and commitment to each other. It is more than economic and legal benefits. It is about stability and commitment, love and fidelity.

    • Summer says:

      That was an awesome video! Great Speaker! Thank You

      • Tim says:

        He was a great speaker. No doubt a great kid. No doubt his two parents that raised him love him very much. And I am sure they love each other very much. But that is not the point!!! You have not convinced me of the validity of “same sex marriage”. I personally don’t believe it is correct, biblically, or socially. Call me narrow minded or closed minded, I still beleive God says that union is reserved for a male and female! I ask you this, could that same two parents who raised that young man, have done the same great job, if they were not married?

        • Grow Up says:

          Could your parents have done the same great job if they were not married?

        • Lee Ann says:

          Tim, you are certainly allowed your views. Nobody wants you to agree with everything that is made into law. If gay marriage is not for you……..don’t have a gay marriage. I personally think that there is a certain “ewwww” factor in it. But its not rights for me, or you. It is equal rights for other people. just like Loving V. Virginia, there were a whole bunch of people who used Biblical verses to argue against it, a large percentage were against interracial marriage back then. Their views either changed or stayed the same. There are still people who disagree with interracial marriage. But that is not the issue. The fact is people deserve equal rights. If a straight couple wants to marry for love and the benefits of marriage, a gay couple should have those same rights. Regardless of how anybody feels about it. We’ve had gay marriage is Iowa for awhile now, and my life hasn’t changed one bit. But passing that law for gay marriage in Iowa, made a big change for some gay people that live here.

  5. Jill C. says:

    How does the desire of two people who love each other and want to make a commitment affect anyone else at all? Using “The Bible says it’s wrong” is not a good argument. The Bible makes many strange commands, like :
    -People who have flat noses, or are blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God
    ~Leviticus 21:17-18

    -The eating of fat is prohibited forever
    ~Leviticus 3:17

    -Stubborn children were to be stoned, and the stoning was to be instigated by their parents
    ~Deuteronomy 21:18-21

    For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a sabbath of complete rest to the LORD; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.
    ~Exodus 35:2

    My point is that either you choose to follow the Bible’s literal interpretation, ALL OF IT, or you accept that it is not meant to be interpreted literally but instead to be a document for contemplation and a general guide.

    Here is one of my own favorite commands:

    My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
    ~1 John 3:18

    or how about

    Love thy neighbor
    ~Matthew 22:39

    Instead of paying lip service to the Bible maybe we should ask ourselves What Would Jesus Do? …and then do it. And love our neighbors- even the gay ones.

    • Tim says:

      Interesting that you qoute from the old testament as what you do not like, yet the new testament you like. Do you notice the difference in the tone and message between the two? One was before Christ, the other was after Christ. The two testaments each have a unique difference, and, I beleive, are each for a different message.

      • Jill C. says:

        Love Thy Neighbor was not “new” in the new testament.

        Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
        ~Leviticus 19:18

        I’m not sure what your point is. Are you saying that Jesus preached tolerance and love but that God his Father does not?

        MY point is that if you want to follow the teachings of the old testament, then who are you to pick and choose what God really meant and what is no longer relevant? I’m not going to refuse to work on Sundays (I’m a nurse)… I’m not going to go 100% fat free in my diet, I’m not going to stone my children when they’re stubborn, etc etc. I’m also not going to presume to judge which consenting adults should be allowed state sanctioned marriage and all the privilege that goes with it, and which ones should not.

    • Straightasarrow says:

      What a debate… The bible also tells us in the end times, What is right will become wrong and what is wrong will become right. I believe the sanctity of marriage is reserved for man and woman. If people want to be gay, fine, but why get married. Why is it ok for us to contstantly put God in a box. God calls us to love, but never to make His laws into what we want them to be. What would Jesus do? He would love them. In the days of Esau, God hated him because he was sexually immoral. I think that sums it up. Yes it’s the Old Testament. But if people around here didn’t believe in the Old Testament you would have more people cutting their grass on Sunday.

  6. Live and let Live says:

    This is the best video I have seen in a while…Thank you Grow-up, wish all the closed minded people will open their eyes and see, love is love, marriage between gay people is still love :)

  7. jeff says:

    Times are changing but one fundamental thing doesn’t change – the BIBLE. Read the Ten Commandments. Number 7 especially.

    Also those that are quoting the old testament. So if you want to compare as Jill C did – read the entire chapter in Leviticus. It continues in chapter 18 vs 22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind, it is abonmination” In the NIV version it states “do not lie with a man as one lies with a women, that is detestable”. The “New Living Translation” states: “Do not practice homosexuaality, it is a detestable sin”

    Also in regards to Jill C comments about Leviticus – please read the chapter in its entireity. Tell me this if you read it to whom is “The Lord speaking to who and to what regards?

    The Bible’s literal interpretation – ask for forgivness. Pray. Faith. Baptism. Go on to read Revelations.

    I am by no means a preacher man. But I am a devoted Christian. Sin every day, pray every day askiing for forgiveness. Attend church. Good works alone people doesn’t work. I realize I have open a can here but gay marriage no matter how you slice it is Plain WRONG. Sick, inmoral, unexceptable and really shouldn’t even be an issue if you are a “true chirstian”. I can’t judge, only God will judge on Judgement Day.

    Nice to be back – Been gone awhile!!

    • Juie says:

      Would everyone stop quoting the bible?? SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Marrage is a legal issue not a religious one. i belive in wicca, so am i going to hell? if you think you are holy and right, no one knows what happens after you die..could just die or you could be pergatory, or you could haunt someone, the afterlife is what you make of it. Gay marrage does not effect you, sex with children is wrong and using that as an argument is so stupid im sure it was wrote by a religios freak just to make him feel better about gay people. Thinking ike that is what drives Children to suiside, pardon my spelling, everyone is a child of your god so don’t hate don’t judge, don’t worry about it.

    • Jon says:

      In order to understand the book of Leviticus, one must understand its intended audience and its context. The book itself, written to the “Levites,” the tribe of Israel from which the priests emerged, was a guidebook for behaviors to be exhibited by the priesthood with some admonitions to the laity for what was pure and what was unclean (a word unfortunately translated in English as ‘abomination’ in the King James Version, which has a much stronger connotation than its Hebrew origin would suggest). Among the things considered an abomination, using the same words as “man lying with man as with woman” (the translation of this as expressly “homosexual” is the result of poor scholarly work), are also admonishments against eating shellfish, wearing clothes derived from more than one fabric, and the eating of pork. The idea of the entire book is a manual of how the people of Israel would separate themselves from the pagans among whom they lived. In the pagan culture dominant around the time Leviticus was written, some of the rituals involved male prostitution and explicit sexual activity between men. Now, noteworthy in this “men lying with man as with woman,” is that the ritual prostitution was most certainly NOT a consensual relationship between to loving partners. Though historical context doesn’t make Leviticus any less true as an account of the Israelites and their encounter with God and the practices they saw as important, it does shed some light on what specifically was banned and considered sinful and WHY this was so.

    • Jon says:

      I would also point you to two commandments: “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind, and you shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

      As Christians and as members in a Democracy that prizes religious freedom, we are called to treat people with respect and dignity, and though we certainly must live according to our convictions, we also have a responsibility to make sure that others in society are allowed to live by their convictions, as long as those convictions do no demonstrable harm to society. The fact of the matter is that the utilization of individual Biblical verses as a reasoning for halting gay marriage in this country is not a defensible argument. We are not in the business of establishing a religion in this nation, nor are we allowed to ban things simply because they make us uncomfortable.

      Knowing as many gay couples as I do, I find discussions surrounding the suggestion that they are the root cause of moral decay or that they are immoral or irresponsible or reprehensible to be entirely disheartening and unacceptable. They are not out to destroy marriage, but to affirm it. They celebrate the traditional marriages of their friends and family, they live lives as responsible citizens in this state and this country who perform admirably in their chosen professions. They also are grateful that in this great state, they also were allowed to have their committed, monogamous relationships recognized. They are not your enemies, they are your neighbors and friends, they are your family, they are your teachers, your grocers, your nurses, and your bankers. In the years that gay marriage has been legal in this state, a number of couples have made this commitment to their partners, many of whom have been together for a number of years, and only now have the ability to have their relationship officially recognized. In this time, traditional marriages have continued, and I have witnessed a number of beautiful wedding ceremonies and have celebrated as my friends and family welcome children into the world. I think we do best in stopping the marginalization of gay people in society and encouraging them to enter into loving committed, monogamous relationships and to reach out in love and understanding rather than looking upon them with fear, judgement, and distrust.

  8. Summer says:

    Lets just all be happy & let everyone else be happy. That’s cool huh? :)

  9. Biker says:

    Do some of you people really understand the difference between old and New Testament?

    Second, yes we all sin but we ask for forgiveness. Being gay is not a choice when you were born, decided upon during your school years etc. a married is a bond between man and woman and ultimately our Heavenly Father.

    Third this should not be a Biblical debate? How do you figure. First and foremost it is the Bible. The Holy Word of God that one must answer to.

    Summer says let’s all be happy. That is not what the Good Lord intended. There will be trials, tribulations, the good and bad. Kinda like your marriage vows, better or worse.

    The afterlife – I am sorry. Heaven or Hell. Simple as that.

    Quoting scripture here and there, in my mind says you really have no understanding of scripture. Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed due to there wickedness. Wake up people, the Lords second coming is near. Look around. By marriage, soon child/marriage, next thing will be animals married bc we love our pets. Sick and wrong.

    In the end of days, judgement day will be here. You in front of The Lord. Powerful, but yet very scary. Go read revelations my friends. I got church to attend gotta go!

    • Lee Ann says:

      Biker, yes I do understand the differences between the Old and New Testament. And Jesus said “All the old has passed away. One must come through me to get to the Father.” Meaning the old rules don’t matter, all that matters is that you go through Jesus to get to heaven.

      While I understand your reasoning, the United States is not a theocracy. We do not base our laws on our religion, or any religion, for that matter. The Evangelicals that are passing all these laws stating that Sharia law will never be the law in this country? We should be passing laws stating NO religion will ever be law in this country . Gov. Scott in Florida passed a law allowing for prayer in Florida schools. He was all proud of himself until he found out the Satanists in Florida are proud of him and demonstrated to show their pride in him Just wait until the Satanists want to do the Friday night football prayer? Not to be confused with Pagans, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Quakers, LDS, etc. We do not base our laws on our religion or our beliefs. Because there are so many different religions. So we go by secular rights for everyone. Meaning if straight people marrying are allowed to marry and receive benefits, then gay people marrying should be allowed the same. While I respect your beliefs in this matter, we cannot make law based on your religion. Equal rights, interracial marriage rights, Employment rights, marriage equality rights. The rights of the majority shall not infringe upon the rights of the minority.

      • Live and let Live says:

        Marriage is a Legal issue, people can get married in a church by a pastor or in a court house, just because its your religion other people don’t go by that, you don’t like gay marriage than you don’t need to marry a man, plain and simple, why is everyone quoting the bible? according to the bible we all came from Adam and Eve, so there was insest involved because someone had to have sex with their kids to procreate from just adam and eve, Again separation of church and state, marriage is a legal issue not your religious issue.

        • Lee Ann says:

          Oh no, after Cain slew Abel, he left and went to the land of Nod and lived with the people there. I guess God didn’t stop making people after he rested.

          • Tim says:

            Lee Ann…Let me throw something out here. my ‘Progressive’ thinking side. God did create Adam and Eve, in Gen 1:26-28 says God created man. male and female he created them. It goes on over and over to say ‘them’. Them is plural!! So did God create more than one male and female? Were Adam and Eve his first? Did God juist create one tree and one blade of grass, and it went from there? Or did he form the earth with some sort of age? I do not know, however, I will entertain the idea that God did create more than one male and female, after Adam and Eve. Is that not a ‘progressive’ idea??? I do believe God created the earth with age, how old…only God knows. After all…he created it in six days, but is a day in Gods eyes, a million years in ours?
            This got a little off topic, but it does relate to what male and female were created for.

  10. Jim says:

    Ok, who let “mr” post? Idiotic nonsense. Shame on the editors.

  11. jeff says:

    Man this thread is a hot topic.

    Secular law, pagan law, social law, man / woman marry, therefore man/man/woman/woman marry. People on here talk of change. Well where will this lead, man/child/woman/child/animal/man/animal woman. Oh that is sick and wrong – opps forgot – you have feelings and that is disturbing om my what did I just say. You want change go buy an airplane to fly to school, I checked in my garage my one car I own still has wheels that go round and round, sure it has leather, GPS, my interior has changed over the last 50 years but the PRINCIPLE is still the same.

    Everyone talks about there religion, social laws, etc. Bottom line, above all else ALHPA and the OMEGA. God, a triune God (for those that dont know 3 persons) is above all. Now sure A and O are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet and thats not what we teach here or were taught in english but the BIBLE has been around for a few years. Besides different versions, they are all the same. NO change there.

    Also those that are looking and quoting certain passenges in the old testament – be frank with you here, thats a cop out. Thats like me quoting one line out of a newspaper for my good when you really must read 1,2,3 chapters to truely understand, grasp, the meaning of what the Lord was telling Moses to tell Aaron.

    You all enjoy your Easter weekend and think about the message you are hearing on this sunday in church.

  12. Facts says:

    And now I… a nonbeliever will remind you of the words of Jesus Christ “‘Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.’ This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like it, ‘Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22:35-40). Nothing said about gay marriage. Try enjoying your Easter weekend by loving your neighbors, all of them, unconditionally, whether they be black or white, gay or straight, rich or poor, legal or illegal, I really think that this was what your God was trying to be at. If I am not honoring the first of his commandments, you truly are not honoring the second.

  13. Jay says:

    Wow, just wow!

    To even start, the thought of connecting AIDS to same sex marriage is outrageous and uncalled for. How is that even an excuse to block equality? Look – if you aren’t cheating on your significant other and neither of you have HIV, then get your head out of other people’s business! The amount of infections in this country is actually lower than you might think. Just don’t share needles or have unprotected sex! Anyway…

    You CANNOT… And I mean, CANNOT bring religion in this because you turn into a hypocrite! You cannot preach against same sex marriage when above all your God preaches love, acceptance, and tolerance. This government DOES NOT rule by the Bible. We are not a religious-run nation, therefore the beauty of separation of church and state should always be enforced. Because of this, you cannot throw your religious beliefs down everyone’s throats. Keep your relationship with Christ PERSONAL. You’re entitled to your beliefs but you cannot expect everyone to practice it.

    Same sex marriage will not cause a snowball, like man-and-dog marriages. Gays aren’t dogs or savages. They are people. Like you and me. Who love others. They aren’t diseased. They are citizens.

    Maybe if you take more of the tolerance teachings of the bible and stop preventing happiness for others, our LGBT teen suicide rate might go down and people will feel better about who they are.

    Love is love.

    • Jacob says:

      HBO just had show about one of the first interracial marriages in the state of Virginia. At first while watching it I couldn’t beleive we used to be so stupid when it came to marriage. But reading and listing to some of arguments against same sex marriage it makes me realize we realy haven’t made it that far.

    • rp says:

      I have a problem with this. I am NOT going to keep my relationship with Christ personal, because as a follower of Christ I was made to make disciples of all nations. Now, Christians can preach against same-sex marriage because it goes against their own religious beliefs. BUT because our God preaches acceptance, love and tolerance we must love those who are for same-sex marriage. so dont assume and make sterotypes about all Christians

  14. Biker says:

    Facts – your quoting first commandment and then second? Have you read them all? They are built upon each other. Second – man / animal marriage – goggle it. Love is love? I assume that means all that we worship? Children, animals, earthly possessions? I am shaking my head. I feel for a lot of you. We need to feel better for who we are? That makes no sense. I need a better car but yet I am on welfare type of idea.

    Politics are one thing. People are saying embrace change, let’s all get along, lets be happy. That is mearly in the moment at best. Religion is another and I understand that but people bottom line here is the BIBLE. Just because I told you to x…. Doesn’t mean your going to go run with the masses and jump on the band wagon. Even websters defines marriage as union bt man and woman.

    Feel for me but I really feel for some of you. This will continue but to those that are in favor of this it is truly sad. And with that said …..I am out of this thread.

  15. Robert Keller says:

    I pride myself on being the most bigoted and redneck person to write on these forums(and KIWA editors could vouch for that one), but I say legalize gay marriage. There has to be something more important for the country and the supreme court to take up than whether a couple rolls over after and watches football or they watch the news.

  16. Easter Thoughts says:

    1) Because there is sin in this world, it is not surprising that this topic has made it to the supreme court. I, as a believer, would pray that God, in His grace, guide the members of the Supreme Court to deny gay marriage for the benefit of society and the peace of the church, but I know that God has told us in His word that in the last days sin will abound.

    2) While many on this post have discussed God’s love and tolerance, I believe we need to take a close look at all of scripture. Yes, God is a loving God toward His people. But, being a holy and righteous God He hates sin. He is not tolerant towards any sin, including homosexual behavior or the evil thought I may have towards a neighbor. We need to remember that this Easter weekend is a celebration of Jesus Christ’s death on the cross to satisfy God’s wrath towards the sin and the deliverance of His people by this sacrifice of love. What a cause for celebration and joy!

    3) True Christian love is not a tolerant love. It is love that causes us to go to our unbelieving neighbor, concerned for their spiritual soul, and tell them of the consequences of sin and his or her need for the only savior, Jesus Christ. Do Christians do a good job of that? No, we don’t -which only increases our debt of sin before God. But, by His grace, we can work towards showing this type of love towards each other.

    This discussion makes me hope more and more for the day when Christ comes again to deliver His elect, chosen people and reign over them in a glorious, sinless eternity. Praise be to God!

    • Susan says:

      1. “Deny same sex marriage for the benefit of society.” How would same sex marriage hurt society? Marriage is between two people, no? Therefore, wouldn’t this only affect those who are getting married? I think any opportunity this country has to grant more freedom to those who don’t have equal rights and/or an opportunity to make this country a brighter place for it’s citizens, then we should do so! I can understand your “for the peace of the church” point, but it can’t apply to our government because we aren’t ruled by the church.

      2. Let me ask you this… have you ever considered God “made” people gay? Can a gay man be a Christian? Does sexuality really define someone? I have met many people who fully believe God made them this way and believe in Him and cannot help the way that they feel. The Bible tells us that above all, God is love, and if you have never loved, you do not know God. Gay men and women love one other just as straight people do.

      3. How do you have the right to tell someone who they can and cannot love? You were not born with a “straight privilege.” You are equal to gay men and women whether you like it or not. We are all God’s children and homosexuality will continue whether gay marriage is legal or not. Perhaps it’s time we start accepting and loving our neighbors for who they are instead of sticking our noses in their business.

      Also, to the other posters, if marriage is strictly a union between man, woman, and God… do you believe a marriage between atheists are legal?

      • Tim says:

        Using your analogy that we cannot as a society tell people who they can or cannot have a relationship with. (notice I said ‘Society’ not gov’t) And then using your analogy, that we as a ‘society’ cannot tell someone who they may or may not love. We should therefore conclude, according to your logic, you would be ok with a persons 10 or 12 years of age being allowed to marry, after all, they are in ‘love’. Or, even further, what about the teacher who is 35 years of age, and the person who is 16, they are in love, let them have a relationship. this is your idea of allowing more freedom to our society. Then taking your ‘freedom’ want list further…..why is it we cannot have more ‘partners’? Or why does society look down on an unfaithful partner, after all his/her unfaithfulness was out of “love”, and we should never inhibit love. The Bible allowed Solomon to have many many wives. As “free” Americans we therefore should be allowed that priveldge, it is our “freedoms” right, correct?

        It is my opinion, that with “Freedom” comes responcibility to/of society.
        Freedom can be a wonderful expression of a way of civilization and society.
        However, “Freedom” if taken to every extreme, will bring a society to its knees.

  17. Lee Ann says:

    Tim, Along with the Bible, that I have read several times, I have also read parts of the Kaballah Bible, and the Sumerian Bible. Check out “the legend of Lilith”. That comes from the Kaballah and the sumerian Bibles.

  18. Jeff says:

    Lee Ann – you read the bible, the kaballah bible and the sumerian bible. The Legend of the lilith? Come on really? The Bible is based upon Faith. The legend – I gotta say whatever. Faith – Legend have no recourse what-so-ever.

    • Juie says:

      again Jeff this is a legal issue NOT a religious one, everyone can view a different god, thats what makes America the land of the free. if you don’t belive in other peoples faith, keep it to your self everyone has the right to live free and love who they want.

    • Lee Ann says:

      I just put that in for Tim, who said he was willing to believe that there was more people created than just two.

      • Lee Ann says:

        I just wanted to add, that I would far rather learn that God made many more people, rather than our entire human race was based on incest.

  19. Jeff says:

    Juie that is fine. Freedom I understand that. But really people are using the legend of Lilith in comparison to God – really? That is what I was questioning last. But I guess with freedom we can teach our kids to be free social radicals and teach to them the legend of Lilith. If this is the way things are going in relation to Holy Scritpure it is sad. Same as same sex marriage. Sick and wrong. Mark my words, maybe not today, tomorrow but society will evolve enough to allow a child, maybe yours, to say he/she has feelings for an older adult and we as a society are going to welcome that as fair game but we now accept same sex marriage, were killing babies because that is a women’s choice and now let our kids be free. Isn’t that what your teach, preaching here. If this is not religious but political I still witness mr president take an oath of office with his hand on the Bible. I assume that oath really means nothing. To bad, to sad. you who are in favor of same sex marriage, you all better do some serious soul searching. For the one who said he is a non believer in a post above, why is he posting? Really just to bad. Like someone else mentioned above, I am joining him/her and leaving this thread.

    • Juie says:

      So Jeff if your child told you he/she was gay, would you disown him/her? or would you try to understand where your child was coming from? He/she is still your child, gay or not, you should still love him/her? ask your self that question

  20. rp says:

    If sexuality doesn’t define part of you, what does? Also, if God “made” gays it is a form of sin. Therfore, if God wanted the same sex to be together he would have MADE a way for them to be together, and made it possible to reproduce…but its not is it?

  21. Facts says:

    As hard as it is for some people to believe there are many people in all areas of the United States that are good citizens, good neighbors, good employees, good employers, good parents, good grandparents, good children, good siblings, good co-workers, in other words….good people who simply do not believe in God. Everyone despite their beliefs is entitled to be treated equally under the law. As long as marriage gives people the rights of inheritance and rights to make end of life decisions for another person it must be available to everyone equally. Perhaps everyone should have to enter into a civil union and marriage could be an additional rite that couples could enter into if they so choose according to their religious affiliation or lack thereof.

  22. Art says:

    Wow. “Facts” — by your posts, I assume you are a liberal. If so, you may just have won the prize for the most common-sense idea I have ever heard from a liberal. Why do we have government and the church trying to dictate to each other what marriage should be in the first place? Marriage should be handled by the individual’s (or couple’s) church. Law should be handled by the government. Makes perfect sense. That way the church gets to decide who it will marry, and the government doesn’t get to tell them who they HAVE to marry, and the Government (or the people if you want to look at it that way) gets to decide what its marriage laws are.

    I know my more conservative friends will disagree with me on this, but it really does make sense and solves a lot of problems.

    • Lee Ann says:

      The only problem I could see is getting all of these married couples to be unionized. the reason Gay marriages do not like the term civil union is that it is not as good as marriage it sounds like (to quote Justice Ginzberg) skim milk. If the terminology is the only thing separating us , lets get the state to call what they do something other than marriage. For everyone. Or call what the state does, “Married”, and what the Church does, “Holy Matrimony.”

  23. sarah says:

    Claiming that someone else’s marriage is against your religion is like being angry at someone for eating a donut because your on a diet!

  24. Emma says:

    Our founding fathers built this country on the given rights to “life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.” That means exactly that. Everyone, including homosexual people, are entitled to happiness by legally marrying the love of their life. Gay is ok!

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